Siggie
What makes you think putting emitters on an asteroid, then jumping it is wasteful? Of all the SF series I have read, it is one of the best ways to get a shipyard to where the broken ships are that I have seen. Many SF series have mobile repair yards as it is often the only way to not lose the ship due to engine damage. Repairing those ships with air around you will happen a LOT faster then in vacuum. An air filled shipyard is just what that asteroid is. I can even see making a small version of that asteroid that simply docks the broken ship inside it, then transports it to what ever base you want. It would be slow to maneuver but better than scrapping the ship.
Your count of alliance ships is low. The Avendahl captain wants to stop wasting time in the PC and go help earth. I think book twelve will have him do just that. And the idea that the Aurora destroyed ALL the Takaran ships is nonsense. The Wiki mentions two more but it has no data. I can't remember what happened to the Wallach and the Camplaglia is the one the Aurora ran into IIRC. They will scrape up more. And to get Earth the assistance it needs, freighters, cruise liners, hospital ships and the like can be converted. It would not surprise me if the Avendahl is leading a small fleet.
That base will not be anywhere near as easy to attack as you think. You'd need a LOT of firepower to take it and lots of ships. If you are thinking take it with that battle station, well, those are monitored upon finding them and there is probably one in every system the Jung have. They can't hide those very well. Those ships will NOT be able to sneak up as the alliance will do something the Jung apparently don't do much of ... patrol. And now they got 16 ships to do it with and more coming. And they have two teenage experts on how best to go about it. If you want, you can consider the alliance very lucky that their patrols so far, have not been discovered. Or at least, not discovered in time.
What more, that base, upon being discovered and attacked, can jump away. Maybe not instantly, but they can do it. In fact, if I were the base commander, I'd have an escape jump programed in the computers at all times and even have the path it needs clear at all times. I can see a scene where some pilot or captain gets balled out because they drove through the escape route.
Eventually, it will be jump ships against jump ships as the Jung will get the tech one day. That will probably await a future series.
Your stubbornness astounds. We don't know the asteroid will jump anywhere but we love the idea. We admit that there needs to be permanent bases but they can't move when discovered. And they take time to build, time that just doesn't exist. Your ideas should not be written in stone any more than mine or anyone elses. Don't be like the captain that refuses to change tactics just because that is what is in the manual and the enemy has beaten it.
I'd love to read where Nathan and company start crowd sourcing ideas from all alliance planets. Crowds are smarter than individuals.
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and what you have been missingthe asteroid can be jumped with the newer zped drives from darvano to the fringe.
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Yes, and wouldn’t it be better to invest those resources in a new warship that will actually alter the strategic balance even a little? As far as we know the Alliance order of battle consists of 2 damaged warships, 16 jump fighters and an unknown number of surviving fighters from the Aurora and the Captured Jung base on Tanna moon. This means that no offensive operations can be conducted for a while, a functioning warship increases the capabilities of the Alliance even if it is just a freighter with a few dozen more jump fighters. A small asteroid base does not, it can fix the warships but it cannot do much more than that thereby requiring a second base for all of the other necessities which just complicates the problem further.<div class="et_quote">
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hence the whole purpose of the title of the thread what is in the darvano system.dumar in taking over karuzara, said that’s a few more metric tonnes can be taken to aid in mass canceling.
karuzara as built and described is a micro gravity shipyard, that can hold up to 4 aurora class ships, thousands of support staff, has commarrays and can easily look like a mining station, that no one pays attention to.
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Fate has smiled on Captain Scott, the captured warship has been repaired… they have build their own warship… they have converted freighters into carriers… anyone of those provides more than a mobile base that cannot be used for what is really needed.As for the mining capabilities, well it seems like a bad idea to put all of your mining capabilities on a base that might have to bug out on short notice thereby leaving their mining support behind. The jump drive is revolutionary but the Jung can still outrun light, they can easily do a recce at different intervals from Earth and determine the importance of the base.
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the yamaro is a jumpable basestation that was given to corinair, who would gladly send it to help Natan
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If I am not mistaking the Yamaro is a warship which is infinitely more useful to the alliance than a mobile base.<div class="et_quote">
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hence with a couple of simple tugs both could be pushed from the darvano asteroid belt and any other already hollowed out asteroid as well, and jumped to near the Sol system or anywhere else in the core or fringe.
ships using said bases, would be jumping in and being seen for an instant with the new emiiter arrays being able to jump within meters of the target. nothing to be seen unless the frigate mentioned was sitting within visual range of the asteroid, of which a flash encrypted scramble message would have said frigate turned to dust in minutes.
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What is the purpose of a base?It is supposed to provide repair facilities, research and development, construction capabilities and training capabilities on top of resource gathering to support all of those above mentioned capabilities.
Say a frigate stops at 1 LY and looks around, then stops at 6 Light months, then at 3 Light months etc… it outruns its light while building up a profile of the importance of the base, it stops near the base and gets ready to attack… the base jumps but leaves most of its mining capabilities to be captured/destroyed thereby becoming useless to the war effort until they are replaced. If its jump drive should be sabotaged or malfunction the base is dead meat, it doesn’t have the power to get away nor would it have the defensive capabilities to fight of an enemy warship. Blow the base up and any ship it is repairing at the time is gone as well…
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now take your imperialistic attitude and go read the entire series thusfar, because if you had you would know all of these things I have just posted
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Oh wow… how old are you? 12?
you have totally missed everything written in the books.
you want a base, karuzara is a base, not for mining, but it contains the major component the alliance needs, a place to make major repairs inside and out on the ships.
the yamaro is a base perfect to act as a hiddencarrier moon. now all ships fighters the lot can be refitted and repaired.
because they look like mining colonies they wont get a second glance. they can be placed in any asteroid field in the fringe or the core.
the mining inside karuzara is only to make the mass right to allow jumping.
these give the two most needed items lacking.
your jung playing LY tag is giving them too much credit. the jung use numbers in anything they do. it ha been shown in every action they have done thusfar.
they don't have frigates doing jump recon, because they cant
everyone of your the base will get found out if its permanently in a system is great if they had jump recon potential, which they don't.
and as to my age, my first thousand books read were long before the internet existed.
and oh wow go read the books instead of skimming. it would give more background to your arguments which are easily refuted.
@ david the Wallach was kkv'ed in orbit of corinair, the campaglia was the initial capital ship that was impaled with the auroura
if you recall in head of the dragon no ships were wiped out beyond repair unless from lucky shots, all have been refitted with zpeds and in process of repair as the avendahl had to jump back from savoy until the other ship arrived in takaran space
the jump refits are also being done to placate the parliament
over 100 402 airframes were bought, 20 already arrived on station, 16 left of those which means given swapping systems and repairs another 40 on the way is very possible.
oh and for siggie, those statements I put in this post are from facts in the actual text not your wild imagination of space 1999, if your old enough to know that reference
@ david the Wallach was kkv’ed in orbit of corinair, the campaglia was the initial capital ship that was impaled with the auroura
if you recall in head of the dragon no ships were wiped out beyond repair unless from lucky shots, all have been refitted with zpeds and in process of repair as the avendahl had to jump back from savoy until the other ship arrived in takaran space
the jump refits are also being done to placate the parliament
over 100 402 airframes were bought, 20 already arrived on station, 16 left of those which means given swapping systems and repairs another 40 on the way is very possible.
In otherwords, what I said holds. There are a lot of untapped resources in the Pentarus Cluster that some are not counting. I can even see surprise ships from say, the original Alpha Centauri government showing up.
Not to rehash old news too much, but looking at the whole "maybe it's the Defender-class ships BV-01 -02, we've all been assuming that if one survived, they both survived. Nothing says that the accident that claimed one couldn't have spared the other, either intentionally or by luck. But by design or not, there may only be one of the lost Defender-class ships left. Just as a thought.
I personally, would like to know more about what happened to BV-01/02. I would think that they would reappear in the story line at some point. Could still be out there, then again, it could be that the ships are all that are left.
maybe adrift somewhere but not in a system as jung would have found them
Or in pieces. Regardless of where they are, it would make an interesting story. They were added to the lore for a reason, we just haven't been told what that reason was 🙂
Siggie
What makes you think putting emitters on an asteroid, then jumping it is wasteful? Of all the SF series I have read, it is one of the best ways to get a shipyard to where the broken ships are that I have seen. Many SF series have mobile repair yards as it is often the only way to not lose the ship due to engine damage. Repairing those ships with air around you will happen a LOT faster then in vacuum. An air filled shipyard is just what that asteroid is. I can even see making a small version of that asteroid that simply docks the broken ship inside it, then transports it to what ever base you want. It would be slow to maneuver but better than scrapping the ship.
There are a grand total of 2 warships that the Alliance has in the region, its nothing more than a division whatever ship class you want to give the Aurora and Celestia it is still only a division. A war like this will likely require more than just a couple of ships so planning for the future is in my opinion is what would be called for. If an asteroid is to be given the capability to jump great, but it should be placed as far away from potential combat as possible, a permanent location where the asteroid is stationed. This will allow for aid from the PC to be send to a safe location as well as the base being in a permeant state of expansion. Once you have a permanent base that gathers resources to support its expansion, repair facilities as well as production of ships and weapons the Asteroid if send can be used as a tactical weapon to support combat operations. Setting up a base that can continue the war even if one or both of the ships are destroyed should be the primary goal rather than building a base which could be destroyed through a bit of good planning and good luck on the part of the Jung and bad luck on the part of the alliance thereby bringing the Alliance back to square one.
Your count of alliance ships is low. The Avendahl captain wants to stop wasting time in the PC and go help earth. I think book twelve will have him do just that. And the idea that the Aurora destroyed ALL the Takaran ships is nonsense. The Wiki mentions two more but it has no data. I can’t remember what happened to the Wallach and the Camplaglia is the one the Aurora ran into IIRC. They will scrape up more. And to get Earth the assistance it needs, freighters, cruise liners, hospital ships and the like can be converted. It would not surprise me if the Avendahl is leading a small fleet.
What the Captain wants and what the situation allows for are two different things... If I am not mistaken Prince Casimir stated
" We have but one jump-capable warship, and are unlikely to have another in the near future." This to me means that the likelihood of any Takaran warships entering the war is low for the immediate future that is assuming the civilian leadership even wants to act.
I believe that the Karuzari destroyed a number of Takaran warships and that prompted Caius to fall back from some systems, the Aurora simply compounded the damage.
That base will not be anywhere near as easy to attack as you think. You’d need a LOT of firepower to take it and lots of ships. If you are thinking take it with that battle station, well, those are monitored upon finding them and there is probably one in every system the Jung have. They can’t hide those very well. Those ships will NOT be able to sneak up as the alliance will do something the Jung apparently don’t do much of … patrol. And now they got 16 ships to do it with and more coming. And they have two teenage experts on how best to go about it. If you want, you can consider the alliance very lucky that their patrols so far, have not been discovered. Or at least, not discovered in time.
Destroying the base is easy, catch it by surprise and destroy as many of the emitters as possible and once that is done you can take it at your leisure. The Alliance needs to picket Earth and Tanna which will eat up alot of those 16 fighters, even if Tug sends another 50 it still will be pretty hard since Earth is presumably the centre of known Human controlled space aside form the PC. I am talking about potential attack from 360 degrees so using 16 fighters to patrol all the potential approaches is not enough even if there are 100 fighters would not be enough to patrol all potential routs of attack to Earth as well as defend Earth, Tanna and gather intelligence on the Jung at the same time.
What more, that base, upon being discovered and attacked, can jump away. Maybe not instantly, but they can do it. In fact, if I were the base commander, I’d have an escape jump programed in the computers at all times and even have the path it needs clear at all times. I can see a scene where some pilot or captain gets balled out because they drove through the escape route.
And once the Jung determine the importance of the Base from 1 Light Month away they mount a surprise attack hit some emitters and the base is stuck. Lets say the base jumps, what then? You abandon any mining equipment and personnel as well as any spacecraft and crew who happen to be away from the base. Besides keeping an entire base on 5 minutes notice to move is hard on both equipment and the crew.
Your stubbornness astounds. We don’t know the asteroid will jump anywhere but we love the idea. We admit that there needs to be permanent bases but they can’t move when discovered. And they take time to build, time that just doesn’t exist.
An asteroid used as the nucleus of a permanent base works just fine. An jump capable asteroid base being placed anywhere near combat is not fine for anything other than extra source of action and tension. Lose the system and you lose all crew and equipment outside the base as well as losing any reinforcements that are coming from the PC before you inform them of the change in location.
Your ideas should not be written in stone any more than mine or anyone elses. Don’t be like the captain that refuses to change tactics just because that is what is in the manual and the enemy has beaten it.
So you think I should agree with you because others seem to agree with your position? I am looking at this from the point of view of what would I do in that situation, and I don't need to take a poll to determine what I should or should not think.
I’d love to read where Nathan and company start crowd sourcing ideas from all alliance planets. Crowds are smarter than individuals.
Thats is exactly what is needed in the middle of a war... a referendum.
This war will likely last for many years, putting your base in the safest place you can is paramount for its continued existence and the continued existence of hope for a final victory. If you get an jump-capable asteroid base put it in Tanna with sufficient picket to defend it while looking for a final base far away from the reach of the Jung.
you have totally missed everything written in the books.
Such as?
you want a base, karuzara is a base, not for mining, but it contains the major component the alliance needs, a place to make major repairs inside and out on the ships.
the yamaro is a base perfect to act as a hiddencarrier moon. now all ships fighters the lot can be refitted and repaired.
Read Ep#3 again and you might be surprised that the Tamaro is a warship and not a base.... and what on earth is a hidden carrier moon?
because they look like mining colonies they wont get a second glance. they can be placed in any asteroid field in the fringe or the core.
And how do you plan on doing that if they stop 6 Light months away and take a look? Then at 3 months, then at one and at 2 weeks... what then? Can you make it look innocent at all times?
the mining inside karuzara is only to make the mass right to allow jumping.
these give the two most needed items lacking.
Or it could possibly be to move it in orbit of Corinair as a staging point?
your jung playing LY tag is giving them too much credit. the jung use numbers in anything they do. it ha been shown in every action they have done thusfar.
the worst possible thing you can ever do in war is underestimate your enemy wether his capabilities or his intellect. The Jung are shown in the books as capable to adapt, just because we don't have proof that they use that tactic does not mean that it proves they don't use that tactic. And more than that, they already know what in the Solar system as well as the Tanna system which means that if the Asteroid base is there it might interest them enough to surprise them...
they don’t have frigates doing jump recon, because they cant
Source?
everyone of your the base will get found out if its permanently in a system is great if they had jump recon potential, which they don’t.
The whole point of putting a base far away from them is that even if they found out the location it will still be a few years to get their fleet there... as for the second part of that sentence I don't understand your meaning.
and as to my age, my first thousand books read were long before the internet existed.
and oh wow go read the books instead of skimming. it would give more background to your arguments which are easily refuted.
Really? You haven't refuted anything and as for my "imperialistic attitude" if thats your way of saying I'm right then thanks...
I have read the entire series but seems to me you haven't since you have some gaps in your knowledge of the series.
@ david the Wallach was kkv’ed in orbit of corinair, the campaglia was the initial capital ship that was impaled with the auroura
if you recall in head of the dragon no ships were wiped out beyond repair unless from lucky shots, all have been refitted with zpeds and in process of repair as the avendahl had to jump back from savoy until the other ship arrived in takaran space
the jump refits are also being done to placate the parliament
over 100 402 airframes were bought, 20 already arrived on station, 16 left of those which means given swapping systems and repairs another 40 on the way is very possible.
oh and for siggie, those statements I put in this post are from facts in the actual text not your wild imagination of space 1999, if your old enough to know that reference
Episode 11 Location 626 ” We have but one jump-capable warship, and are unlikely to have another in the near future.”-Prince Casimir... tell me again how many warships they can send?
As for the fighters... we know of 16 remaining so you know what they say about assuming right? You may very well be right but basing your "Argument" on an assumption that more jump capable fighters are coming doesn't improve your position.
Siggy, you actually did research? Stunned. And that statement was quite some time ago in a system that repaired the Aurora very quickly even though they had no previous experience with that class of ship.
Somehow, I think you are the guy that insist on taking the other view point now matter what just to create an argument.
Siggy, you actually did research? Stunned. And that statement was quite some time ago in a system that repaired the Aurora very quickly even though they had no previous experience with that class of ship.
Somehow, I think you are the guy that insist on taking the other view point now matter what just to create an argument.
I'm the guy who sticks to my guns and will not take a poll to decide what my position is going to be... it seems that the majority position is based on sex appeal instead of strategic forethought. I look at this in the "if I am in that situation what would I do" and I rely on history and logic rather than assuming what direction the writer will take and take that position for whatever reason. You can be as condescending as you want but I am right because that is how a war is fought, wether the jump-capable Asteroid base is send or not is irrelevant because either way the chain of events should be the same.
facts be damned
I am not sure what you guys are arguing about, but going back to the last page.
IMHO the idea that Karuzara will pop in Sol as a mobile asteroid base is extremely unlikely. Even if it is possible to outfit the whole asteroid with enough emitters and power sources, it would be an enormous task and as we well know time is of the essence and they don't have the resources to spare. So its far far far more likely that they would finish outfitting the heavy cruiser Yamaro (the ship that was badly damaged over Corinair, and her crew mutinied)
It will take far less emitterspower and work to outfit her, then the HUGE asteroid around it that is on different size scale altogether. It is also not in takaran possession, so Tug won't be breaking any Takaran rules, and iirc it suppose to be operating several squadrons of 402 variants, which will be handy since tug just got about 100+ of ~those ... (and even might be inline with timeline of fixing it, but can't recall the timeline estimate given in Ep 6ish except that it would be too late for getting it up and running for the battle over takara)
Also coincidentally we recently got a new concept art of Takarna design cruiser...
