Do remember that they already have a number of hollowed out asteroids. Just not in the Terran system or Takaran system
Do remember that they already have a number of hollowed out asteroids. Just not in the Terran system or Takaran system
The difference is that it is done of a long period of time, spending the resources and manpower time to hollow one out does nothing but drain resources that could be spend better in other places. Finding a location that is far away so that the enemy cannot get to them solves the problem without having the hollow anything out, or jump a hunk of rock to a different location.
No need to hollow out a previously hollowed out asteroid. Make it air tight, add a ship tunnel, etc. If I recall correctly, The Corinari have asteroids already hollowed out and waiting to be moved. Repurpose them
No need to hollow out a previously hollowed out asteroid. Make it air tight, add a ship tunnel, etc. If I recall correctly, The Corinari have asteroids already hollowed out and waiting to be moved. Repurpose them
Yes, but the problem is that they are in a whole different part of the galaxy. Putting a jump drive on an asteroid might be a bit of a waste I mean if they had to put engines or tugs to move the asteroid plus put in power supply and a jump drive to move that asteroid which seems to be a waste considering that the power supply, engines and jump drive could go towards a new ship. After all what benefit does an asteroid base give you that a base on the surface of a moon or a habitable planet would not? Find a moon and build a base on the surface rather than waste the resources to find a suitable asteroid and hollow it out. Security here is not to build a base and hide it, the security will come from hiding the base but also placing it out of reach of the Jung even IF they know where it is. The Jump drive gives the Allied forces a strategic advantage which every commander in history would have done anything for the advantage it bestows on them, why go through the trouble when you can just use said advantage to secure your base of operation.
The biggest bonus to using an asteroid for a base, is that you an move it from location to location for staging of battles. Lets say that you are going to do a ground assault on a Jung world. Using a ship, you would have limited space on how many people you could ferry to that world, or at least within a few light years of the world. Using an asteroid, you could have a base of operations that can do command and control for the entire battle around the world, sitting at a safe distance from the battle, that can also serve as a staging point for all of the ground troops and equipment. Jump shuttles could jump into the atmosphere, drop their troops off, jump to space, then make a few jumps back to the asteroid base to pick up more troops.
I'm not saying that you can't do the same thing with a moon, but a moon base would only be good for the local sphere space. Once you get to far out, jump shuttles would start to loss their effectiveness, and the data you were getting from the field would be to outdated for your command and control messages to be of any use. Once that sphere of influence is under alliance control, the base could not be used staging of troops and equipment in the next theater, and you would have to build another secret base on another moon to accomplish the same thing. Building bases take time, and keeping them secret would not be easy if the enemy knew that would build a base within x light years of the planets they are attacking. This is where the asteroid base really shines. You can move if from theater to theater, and if it is ever discovered by the enemy, you could just jump it out of the solar system, and move to another predetermined location to move operations.
The only other benefit to using a moon, is the fact that you can dig way down to protect your systems from bombardment, but with fabricators, stored resources, shields, and ZPED's, you could make the base self sufficient to repair your fleet and build new equipment, while also having a degree of defense and offensive abilities also available.
We also have to remember that there are likely hollowed out asteroid already available that could serve as a base with just a few fabricators installed and a crew left to complete the build. They also have to have the ability to maneuver the asteroids already, its not like they have to build anything special. The asteroids don't have to be fast, they just have to be able to move in a direction, and be able to stop and reverse the direction in a reasonable amount of time since the jump drive will do all of the traveling.
1) Doubtful, no-one would willingly put their command and control centre in an asteroid to move it from system to system simply because it is fragile and immobile.
2) Jump Drive allows tremendous flexibility, putting your base of operation in an enemy controlled system or even a system that the enemy has access to is asking for trouble.
3)Assuming that you need more troops, I personally would not put in my ground component in an asteroid that is a sitting target for the enemy, kill it and you defeat the ground assault without firing a shot.
4)The ability to move 45 LY inside a day gives you intelligence that the enemy cannot possibly match, you can gather intelligence and have it back to your base for assessment long before the enemy realizes if they ever realize you were there. What is required is a base that allows for expansion, initially it will be a logistics base until a shipyard could be assembled to take care of repairs and eventually construction of fighters and small warships, an asteroid does not allow for that. At least not easily enough.
5) Sorry but we are talking about having the ability to move over a certain distance in a single day when your enemy requires 6 months or more to make the same trip, anything within 72hr one way trip would be more than sufficient for the moment. When retaking worlds one becomes the springboard for the second and so forth focusing on something that is so far out in the future seems like a good way to lose the war before it even starts. Secrecy is great, distance is better, being unreachable is better than being hidden whereas being hidden and unreachable is even better.
6) The whole point is to avoid bombardment, in an asteroid there is only so much you can do, so much expansion you can commit to before you run out of space, while on a planet/moon you can expand and should you need more space you have it and better yet, one mistake or accident and your entire logistic chain does not die.
7) Define reasonable amount of time? Why should anyone spend time to build the power plants and engines as well as jump drive and environmental systems for an asteroid when those components could go far to build a ship that has much more utility than simply an under developed base.
You brought up some very good points, but the whole point in an asteroid base is to have something similar to a battle platform in function, but not have to wait years for it to get built. So you would have to make some sacrifices to save lot of time for construction, mostly sub light speed, agility, defenses and offenses, at least at first. The alliance doesn't need a ship that can go into a solar system and bombard a planet into submission, but it does need a forward logistics base.
You could use the engines and generators to build another ship, but that ship would be limited in size and would never be able to accomplish the same thing that an asteroid base could do. If the alliance has a ship that lost it's jump capabilities in another solar system, they would either have to ensure that they capture that solar system, destroy the ship, or attempt to repair it before the Jung can attack again. With an asteroid base, you could just jump in, park the ship into one of the hangers, then jump back out. You could do the same thing with a ship of course, but we are trying to cut out the time required to build a ship of that size.
Also, considering that the first C&C that was used, was pretty much shipping containers strapped together, I think an asteroid is a pretty big step up. An asteroid is also not as in movable as you would think. As long as it is moving, it can jump, so it can move at any time you wish it to, as long as you want to jump in the same direction. You would just be limited to how fast you can get some place, based on how long it takes maneuver it into a new heading to be able to get where you wish to go. Normally, this would mean that you are very vulnerable while maneuvering, but it is not really an issue when your enemy is limited to standard FTL. Just jump 6 light years out, and start maneuvering. Also, who said you had to be in a solar system with your asteroid? If there is one with allot of asteroids in it, why not use it, but you could also just jump 1-5 lights year out of the world you are fighting and do your staging there. It just needs to be with in reasonable jumping distance for comms relays and jump shuttles.
You would not want your forward base to also be your primary shipyard. With an asteroid base, the whole point is to save time while still having what you need to support your fleet. Truthfully, you would want something more like a battle platform, and you could possibly plan all of your building so that the asteroid is really like an egg for a battle platform or large ship, but until you can build your own battle platform, you will take what you can get.
I would love for what ever is sent to Earth to be some large scale mining vessel that could park a couple defender class ships inside of its cargo containers, but the only thing that has been introduced to the series so far that will accomplish what is needed for the battle against the Jung is an asteroid base. We will just have to wait what to see what Ryk has envisioned for what it coming out of the Darvano System.
You brought up some very good points, but the whole point in an asteroid base is to have something similar to a battle platform in function, but not have to wait years for it to get built. So you would have to make some sacrifices to save lot of time for construction, mostly sub light speed, agility, defenses and offenses, at least at first. The alliance doesn’t need a ship that can go into a solar system and bombard a planet into submission, but it does need a forward logistics base.
What they need is a base where they can store ammunition, weapons and other supplies needed for the war effort. They need a location that is safely hidden and out of reach of the enemy which would provide them with repair and refit facilities with the potential to grow the industrial capacity of the base with manpower brought from Tanna, Earth and any other locations that are freed. Bringing an asteroid from the other side of the galaxy is not required because it is fragile and has limits to any fixed defences you can place but more than that it has limited resource gathering capabilities as well as expansion of industry. How good is a fragile moving base of operations that your own allies will have problem nailing down for resupply? The Ship to ship action of the series does not indicate a need for a base of operation for fleet action as each ship is capable of being away from home port for a long time.
You could use the engines and generators to build another ship, but that ship would be limited in size and would never be able to accomplish the same thing that an asteroid base could do. If the alliance has a ship that lost it’s jump capabilities in another solar system, they would either have to ensure that they capture that solar system, destroy the ship, or attempt to repair it before the Jung can attack again. With an asteroid base, you could just jump in, park the ship into one of the hangers, then jump back out. You could do the same thing with a ship of course, but we are trying to cut out the time required to build a ship of that
Yes but what do you do with the base if its jump drive fails? Suddenly all of your logistical support and repair facilities are in jeopardy at that point losing a ship is a smaller price than losing all of your stockpiles resources, supplies and infrastructure.
Also, considering that the first C&C that was used, was pretty much shipping containers strapped together, I think an asteroid is a pretty big step up. An asteroid is also not as in movable as you would think. As long as it is moving, it can jump, so it can move at any time you wish it to, as long as you want to jump in the same direction. You would just be limited to how fast you can get some place, based on how long it takes maneuver it into a new heading to be able to get where you wish to go. Normally, this would mean that you are very vulnerable while maneuvering, but it is not really an issue when your enemy is limited to standard FTL. Just jump 6 light years out, and start maneuvering. Also, who said you had to be in a solar system with your asteroid? If there is one with allot of asteroids in it, why not use it, but you could also just jump 1-5 lights year out of the world you are fighting and do your staging there. It just needs to be with in reasonable jumping distance for comms relays and jump shuttles.
Can you place ship yards to repair allied combatants, repair captured combatants, build new combat vessels, workup said combat vessels stockpile resources for resupply of the fleet etc...
What happens if there is an accident that takes the asteroid out? Everything goes with it, if there is an accident that destroys a ship yard it takes out the ship yard but the supply base, the mining facilities, the military assets are all safe. You need a fixed postal code so that your allies and your troops know where to find you, and they need to know that the base is safe.
It seems to me you believe a base it to add combat power to the fleet... well it is not. The base is there to support the fleet with whatever is needed and over time the ability to expand to support larger and larger population base and infrastructure is more important than the sexiness of the base.
You would not want your forward base to also be your primary shipyard. With an asteroid base, the whole point is to save time while still having what you need to support your fleet. Truthfully, you would want something more like a battle platform, and you could possibly plan all of your building so that the asteroid is really like an egg for a battle platform or large ship, but until you can build your own battle platform, you will take what you can get.
If you cant touch my base you cant kill my base, what this means is that the base is safe it can support and expand to support larger and larger fleets, at some point in the future of the series a mobile base may be an asset but at this point in the series it is nothing but a liability.
I would love for what ever is sent to Earth to be some large scale mining vessel that could park a couple defender class ships inside of its cargo containers, but the only thing that has been introduced to the series so far that will accomplish what is needed for the battle against the Jung is an asteroid base. We will just have to wait what to see what Ryk has envisioned for what it coming out of the Darvano System.
So you are going for cool effect? Even when it has no real value to it?
Fragile? How thick are the walls of an asteroid base? I picture them thicker than Aurora is long. A lot to pound through. Might be better to land troops on it if you want to take one.
Also, it would NOT go into battle. Leave that to ships. Hid after showing up in a system. Especially after the Jung learn to identify the arrival flash.
Just had a wacko thought. Flying rail guns. Ammo, barrel, power and minimal navigation. No jump so if one gets captured, nothing to learn. Put ten or twenty of them around target at various points and program them to appear to all fire at once for saturation shooting. Heck move them to second attack point at super light and do so in a way where a ten shot magazine all shows up on target all at once. And this could be programmed from the asteroid base.
Fragile? How thick are the walls of an asteroid base? I picture them thicker than Aurora is long. A lot to pound through. Might be better to land troops on it if you want to take one.
How much good did the armour and shields do for the Battle station for the final battle of book 11? Our modern weapons can blow asteroids to little bits and pieces if we had the desire to do so and the ability to get there so what do you think about a civilization that is almost a millennia ahead? And If I knew it was the enemy's logistics base I would blow it up even if it means ramming it with a warship, losing a frigate or cruiser is nothing compared to losing your repair facilities and millions of tons of supplies, munitions and equipment along with your entire human support structure.
Also, it would NOT go into battle. Leave that to ships. Hid after showing up in a system. Especially after the Jung learn to identify the arrival flash.
Then what is the use of an asteroid? Having a massive base 5 days travel away is much better than having a mediocre base right next door, especially considering that even at 20 times light the enemy would require years to get to your base and even his internal lines of communication, supply and reinforcements are ridiculously long in comparison to you.
And this could be programmed from the asteroid base.
Or a shuttle...
How about the new front-page pic of the departing ship, and one laid-up? Maybe the 'gift' from the PC?
Re-read chapter 5 of Born of the Ashes.
Commander Dumar "Only to the extent needed to sufficiently reduce her mass......"
Why would they be worried about the mass of an asteroid?
You don't suppose that they plan on fitting her with a big ZPED and a big jump drive?
Where is the best place to hide a tree, in a forest. Where is the best place to hide an asteroid, the Oort belt. Close to earth and what's one more rock floating in a sea of rocks.
It's large enough to move President Scott and the other earth leaders to a place of safety and still have plenty of room for ship repair, re-arming, and re-fitting. Plus in the Oort belt there would be lots of raw material to feed the fabricators.
Re-read chapter 5 of Born of the Ashes.
Commander Dumar “Only to the extent needed to sufficiently reduce her mass……”
Why would they be worried about the mass of an asteroid?You don’t suppose that they plan on fitting her with a big ZPED and a big jump drive?
Where is the best place to hide a tree, in a forest. Where is the best place to hide an asteroid, the Oort belt. Close to earth and what’s one more rock floating in a sea of rocks.
It’s large enough to move President Scott and the other earth leaders to a place of safety and still have plenty of room for ship repair, re-arming, and re-fitting. Plus in the Oort belt there would be lots of raw material to feed the fabricators.
How does it make sense? What happens if they cannot stop the next attack and have to retreat? Do they leave their base in Sol System? If not they will have to jump which means that base cannot be used in such a manner later because that is the first place they would look. There is only so much expansion to make before you have to move on to another asteroid and having another jump drive etc... I personally would not put a base that is meant to support a growing fleet in a system that is so weakly defended, one incident on board, one saboteur and the base and all of its people as well as infrastructure, supplies and materials will be gone.
I dont know it just does not make sense to me because if they are observing the system they can figure out the base just from the emissions, coming and goings of the ships etc... If you do a recce starting from say 4 light months away and work your way in you can clearly determine where the enemy is, how strong he is and where his assets are, the first thing I hit is the base since it cannot jump if it is in the asteroid field until it clears the field which means it needs good engines etc...
You are assuming that the base can't move or jump. Do not assume that. Many of us think that the original asteroid base in the Darvano system is going to go to the Terran system with an oversized jump drive
How many years did the Karuzar use that asteroid as a base, even though they were being actively hunted. They managed to stay hidden.
I think the Takaran tech is better than the Jung's and they couldn't find it.
As you point out they would be in an asteroid field, meaning the Jung can not raise their shields, go FTL, and it would be easy to hide mines. The Jung could get close to the edge of the field, they enter at their own peril
