Its really annoying me that the Avandalh's presence at Corinair was such a drain on the Alliance budget that they couldn't build up a Cobra base there too... those would have been very handy in the defense of the PC.
@shadow: Lord Dusahn was speaking about the takarans being defeated by a boy captain
@four-islands: Yes the takarans were building a game changer, but lord Navarro would never have allowed it to be completed.
And I don't think the Avendal was being paid out of the Alliance budget. I think it was paid by Deliza and lord Navarro. The Darvano system was just satisfied by the protection it's presence brought and the rest of the PC had other smaller warships (those that Tug turned over to them) while the Sol Sector never wanted to establish anything in the PC.
I agree, that Dusahn was talking about the Takaran's being beaten by a boy captain. But he later beat Jung. The people who had the power to push out the Dushan. So Technically the Dushan should shut the hell up. <he he he>
A Capital ship like the Avandahl would cost too much for any Noble household to own and operate on their own, the old Takaran Emperor set it up that way. Navarro would have lost a lot of his riches when he defected to the Alliance. Corinair and the other Alliance worlds of the PC must have been, if not paying protection money, then contributing to a joint defense fund of some form. and it only makes sense, the Lords of Takara would not be seen as a peaceful leaders to the other worlds of the PC, of course those Alliance worlds were going to anti up for maintaining the status quo.
As for Navarro not letting the Takaran's complete the Battleship.
1) Fit the Jump drive, load up the hold with weapons, jump out randomly and begin fitting the external weapon mounts after the fact.
2) Automate one of the frigates and threaten the Avandahl to keep away or be responsible for the glassing of X world (that would be good for about 2 weeks construction time.
3) Use a secret base for the construction of a battleship while the current docks delly-dally about the docks
Tug didn't give the PC any smaller warships. Gillardi let the PC Alliance craft that remained in Sol return to the PC, the few that remainded were mostly given to the Gatazach.
The other worlds of the PC may have had short range fighters for self defense but of a lower quality then the current Takaran fighters but those do not count as warships. And I really look forward to all of the Awesome small scale warships that the unaffiliated worlds (even in the Sol Sector) will build (because the ability to build ship of the line warships is very costly.)
no, sorry,
Tug broke up the takaran fleet (for the most part) and while keeping the best pieces he turned some ships over to the other 7 Pentaurus Cluster worlds, those would have been wiped by the Dusahn.
And yes while you would be able to operate secret Yards or something like that, lord Navarro (and the Corinairans for that matter) had spies on Takara and within the T'Akar System (Navarro even had contacts within the military) AND he did save most of his wealth and that of his crew by transferring it to Corinair.
I really don't think Tug split up the fleet and gave it piecemeal to the other PC worlds. He may have planned to do so but I dont think he did it. For one thing, Tug wanted to support the Alliance efforts in the Sol Sector first and with the Takaran Lords dragged there feet at that, I imagine that they would have cried bloody murder if he had handed over the warships to newly liberated and likely hostile worlds. Besides we would have seen evidence of other warships being destroyed/attacking in the Dushan attack if nothing else. And if the Takaran Fleet never moved from Takara, they were being updated with Jump drives then the Takaran Lords took over, and kept all but the Avandahl. They may have positioned some of there ships in other systems after that but I doubt it. They would have been isolated and the Avandahl had vowed to defend those other worlds.
I would assume that the other worlds of te PC would have been allowed to for the first time in years build up their own space forces, but the majority of those were a minimum of Old Takaran Fighters. I would not be surprised to find out that some worlds might have built a corvette class ships or two but I imagine they would have been more likely to renovated cargoships and they would have been quick to fall to the Dushan.
As to the Navarro's paying for the Avandahl completely themselves, it was stated in the books that to keep the ship opporational and staffed would break a family. Even if Navarro moved 80% of his wealth (and its silly to think he could have moved all of his wealth out of Takara on short notice) he would be hard pressed to set up his family and cover the costs of the Avendahl all by himself. It is only natrual to assume that the Alliance that they were apart of would help with wages and operating costs. Even if Deliza was helping out, she had to pay for the Cloning operation too. neither would have come cheap.
I seem to remember that there were a large number of jump ships unaccounted for by the Dushan. It would be interesting to see where they all end up!
And I really like the idea of some PC or further out world building small corvettes with limited weapons (smaller then destroyers and frigates / not even ship of the line) and only surviving because the Dushan were too busy with the Alliance/Rebels to really deal with them! but I guess that's for another series not main series as that would bloat the Parts to much... shame
I'll look up the exact phrase that made me think Tug redistributed the fleet tomorrow and post it here.
And yes I guess it would have been too expansive for Deliza and Navarro to pay for the Avendal .... especially in the first years.
But I don't think it was all of the Alliance worlds just the Darvano System (I think that was at least two worlds anyway).
And I remember something about only half the crew went with Navarro
Please do. I love this story and hate that I'm missing out on part of it!!!
I say the Alliance paid toward the Avandahl, it could just have been the Darvano system helping out, but that's fine, I just wanted to note that some Alliance worlds in the PC were footing the bill, otherwise it doesn't make sense that they didn't build more spaceships (I'm talking about cobra's or a gunship of some kind) to defend themselves from pirates etc.
Yes, Half or two thirds, but it would be easy enough to recruit and train more staff from Corinair.
The Avendahl moved to Corinair because Navarro knew that if the nobles had control of the Avendahl, they would likely use it to create a new empire, which was exactly what Tug/Casimir did not want to happen. He also knew that Corinair was the only world capable of supporting the Avendahl. By basing himself there, he had the industrial, economic, and technical base needed, as well as a labor force to recruit replacements for crew that stayed behind. And as long as the Avendahl was alive and well, the nobles would be kept in check.
Casimir never redistributed the ships. There weren't that many left to begin with. (I forget the exact number.) Not because he never intended to, but because he never got things stable enough to be able to do so.
Thanks for clearing that up Ryk, it would seam I misread his declaration of intent as his having already done so.
What I'm wondering at this point though:
The Cobra was an inherently Terran design and if Gilliardi and the other decision makers are that paranoid .... did they ever turn over the blueprints to the Alliance worlds in the PC? Or asked the other way around: Are the PC worlds stuck with outdated blueprints they needed to upgrade, which would result in them developing new spaceships instead of building them?
Thanks Ryk.
Thats a good point Behrang, maybe the Alliance kept the Plan's to the Cobra's, Super Eagle, Super Falcon, Jump Missiles and JKKV's away from the PC for fear of it falling into the hands of the Takaran's who at that point had initiated their Civil war and cold war with the Alliance. The Takaran's which had previously, and could conceivably have again, a health spy network, would have put a premium on those plans, to boost their ability, and identify Alliance asset weaknesses.
Maybe the Alliance didn't want that additional headache in the rear while facing off against the Jung! The Takaran's in the PC were the best suited to building a fleet and with their ability on side it would have been a very strong influence on the Galaxy. One wonders how the strongest (non Jung) world would benefit from an isolationist philosophy.
I'm looking forward to seeing how the Alliance deals with the dual Jung and Dushan Threats now that they have been exposed as such!
The Alliance developed the Cobras, the Super Eagles, and the Super Falcons, using Corinairan and Takaran scientists and techs. And they used Takaran fabricators to speed up production. Same thing with the jump missiles and KKVs. Mostly Takaran born. And the Takaran and Corinairan scientists improved the jump drive, and it was a Takaran that made the mini-zped work to directly power jump drives without using stored energy, thus giving smaller ships like Falcons, Shuttles, and Cobras, unlimited repeat jump range. So, the PC doesn't need any designs from the Alliance. They have jump drive tech, the rest they can do on their own, and likely better than the Sol sector.
Because of Navarro's threats, and the presence of the Avendahl, the Takaran's ability to expand their fleet was somewhat limited. There was very little development of 'new' ships in the years that followed, as most of their energy was put into refitting existing ships with Jump drives, and building up improved communications and interstellar economics using jump drive tech.
You have to wonder how the threat of the Avendahl would have played into their defensive strategies. How they would have planned for the attack of a single large target, maybe supported by much smaller forces in the form of Fighters and Jump shuttles. And how the arrival of the Dushan would have come as a complete surprise, and with forces that they would have been unprepared for...
I would have hoped that the Takaran's would have had contingency plan's in place for an all out attack from the Jung, leading them to send part/s of the fleet to Corinair or other PC worlds, Possibly to Sol. but possibly the assault was to swift to allow for that order to be sent.
The Takarans didn't care of Earth, let alone the Jung who were farther and with no jump tech, therefore no need for a contingency plan... that's what happens when a big opponent is underestimated and greed blinds the mind.
In my mind, the Karuzari owe nothing to Takarans so there should not be need to free Takara from the Dusahn, however, the rebellion is for the sake of Corinair (Darvano and other sytems) and also Earth and as a collateral benefit Takara will be freed as well...
Rulers even those who have blinded themselves with greed, have lower level staff who's job it is to plan for those other contingency events. Those people will now be fired. Obviously.
You're right.
Maybe their assumptions were on a Jung invasion with only FTL ships. Not even the Avendahl was able to defeat the Dusahn...
