Episode 13: Discussion and Speculation

Considering that they nearly stole a fighter, need a high tech security system for everything with a jump drive. Due to tech writer Mat Honan getting hacked and coming this close to losing all pictures of his then 18 month old daughter, he has written on the idea of teaching computers to recognize people a lot like we do. Not typing in a password but with a number of other clues. Add a few centuries or a thousand years of progress to that and install it in anything with jump drives. Make it so that an unauthorized person can NOT steal a jump ship without a lot of trouble.

A second security measure needs to deal with the possibility that they just steal the ship and put it on one of theirs. That needs thinking about. My initial thought was for the ship to blow up if it gets too far from friendlies but then, how do you get a machine to determine that?

The discussion on how to accomplish the above can easily be quite a few pages in book 13. And it can include stuff from here. Based on what happened in book 12, I think some of the ideas used did come from here. 120 plasma shots for example.

Just some thoughts......

I'm getting tired of the Earth and the Aurora and Celestia getting beat up!
Jung leadership must realize that the Earth is getting help from somewhere.
They must also wonder about Tanna and possibly show up there.
Episode 12 didn't give us a lot of time before possibility of the Jung returning in force.

1. I would have a new Data Ark Discovery (shields, space folding, cloaking, etc) revealed and put into production to protect Alliance ships and Alliance worlds. Both the Aurora and the Celestia need shields asap.

2. Prepare for an attack on Tanna.

3. Locate and move several large asteroids (Karuzara clones) into orbit around the Earth and Tanna. Mine them for materials and convert them into inexpensive "Alliance" version of battle platforms, with shields and the latest plasma and other soon to be discovered weapons.

4. Stop being defensive and take the first major action against the Jung. Plan and execute a simultaneous, coordinated attack on "all identified" Jung Battle Platforms, "jumping" antimatter mines or large asteroids into them.

5. Promote Nathan to Commodore now, eventually to "Fleet Admiral". In the future, a "slightly" more mature Josh becomes Captain of the Aurora II, Admiral Scotts Flagship. Telles becomes general of the Alliance military, which is pledged to the Alliance and not an individual. Casmir becomes Alliance President and President Scott resigns to become the head of the Earth Restoration Project.

As the Birthplace of Humanity, Earth must be the "Home World" of the Alliance. It must be cleansed of radiation and rebuilt.

I think it is safe to say that the Jung in proximity to earth will know about Tanna from the spy if the BP got a comm drone off it was destroyed.

With their drone doing 100 light ( think it was mentioned by the General) it will take about a year for the local Jung near Tanna to get the news. Of course one would expect a patrol or the fact Tanna has is not sending back reports to bring the Jung in as well.

I think the spy is Toosh

Ditto. To much information about Captain Nash's crew for the spy not to be on that ship, and as soon as the chapter introducing the crew was over, I felt that Toosh was a traitor.

I like speculation, show heres some ideas.

Captain Nash finds that the old captain's death was caused by sabotage, and that is how they find out Toosh is giving information to the Jung. Information is leaked about a damaged jump fighter after a 'lost battle' with a battle platform. When the ship is pulled into the battle platform, a antimatter bomb is detonated and Aurora/Celestia jump back in and destroy the battle platform. Toosh is swiftly kicked out the airlock.

I think the Nobles will attempt to remove Tug from power, but will find out that not only does Tug have the resources to rival them, but he also has the general population and the military behind him. Tug expands the use of Jump drives to fuel inefficient cargo ships to assist in the rebuilding of PC, causing propellant costs to rise. Nobels spend more and more money to secure resources, making Tug money. The money Tug makes from propellant sales, will be partially used to buy additional ships that were heavily armored, but slow, and partially to secure his household. Equip them with jump drives and zpeds, and they are ready to send them on their way.

Tug becomes one of the first official political leaders of the Alliance, due to his assistance.

Space folding tech will be incorporated into the Karuzara as a defensive system. Later, similar systems will be developed to work with jump drives to eliminate the possibility of jumping into a planet.

Aurora and Celestia will get upgraded with full weapon loadout, shields, and Zpeds. Scout ships will get Zpeds, shields, and plasma weapons, and will end up being a cross between a scout and a fast attack gunboat.

BV-01 and BV-02 found a few ships from the biodigital plague and that was how they were lost. Ships are dead in space, but recoverable. When Aurora finds BV-01/02, she is also affected by the plague, but quickly fixed when they realize that the jump computer is not affected. The Earth crew is not affected, and it is found that Terrans have a genetic change that makes them immune to the plague, and they use nanites to inoculate other alliance members. Tug uses this information to his advantage, giving the treatments free to the general population, paying for if himself. Civil revolts take place and elect Tug to be the president. After with computer cores of PC design are installed to replace the vulnerable systems in the Aurora, the Aurora jumps back to Karuzara to start production of a jump drive to get BV-01/02 back to Earth. Alliance decides that to stop the Jung Armada from reaching Earth, that they need to use the plague to stop them. Alliance uses cure to the plague to liberate conquered worlds, and promptly starts giving the cure to every one on the worlds.

I agree it was somebody on the third scout ship for three reason...1) when the Jung invaded they came from the third scout ship recon Area 2). They were an hour overdue when the Jung arrived what happened to them and from rereading celestia cv-02 theEDF never said they came back.3) also toosh is their sensor operator perfect way to hide transmision from him to the Jung allowing him to tell them The new updated targeting instructions. But if the Jung want a working jump drive and now the scout ship has one the spy could sabotage the crew and steal it...granted a covert spy is an added plus for intel but a working jung jump drive would decimate the alliance

I think the biggest problem for the Alliance is the Battle platforms as there are more than a dozen in service. Two things work on them 1) KKV’s and 2) Mega-plasma cannons. The Falcons can go emitter hunting but falcon loses are not sustainable in the long run. So KKV’s as long as they hit the battle platform it’s a done deal. On the other side the mega-cannons take time and therefore put the Aurora and Celestia in the line of fire longer than they can withstand without shields. First they need to solve the heat problem on the plasma cannons then incorporate them into the ship on outboard side of the fighter launch tubes. They could even install 4 per side and power the plasma cannons with ZPEDs. They will lose some usable space in the hanger bay. Since the use of the falcons on either ship the loss in useable space in not a big deal. Next modification would be to install more rails in the launch tubes in order to accelerate a KKV to higher speed as needed. Develop a new KKV with some mass (steel) and incorporate FTL and mass canceling into it. The development team could even put an anti-matter reactor inside for more fireworks once it impacts a battle platform.
Shields are needed, I think we all agree, but I think there will be problems getting them to work with the jump tactics being used. If I remember it takes time to power them up to full power (battle of Takara). This will be answered later maybe by Tug’s oldest daughter as she learns a lot from the data ark. The short term stop gap to the damage taken while in battle would be to encase the upper part of the ship with the same armor on the lower part. Install more cannons on the ships at the 5 bays on either side of the reactors. Installing more laser turrets on the belly of both ships to increase fire power in order to protect them from incoming fighters. Of course more plasma turrets installed in the 2 quad tunnels not being used and to power all of it …. ZPEDs.

In regards to the spy it seems the platform picked up some data when it first arrived in system so someone needs to check what's out there. Do you think the platform immediately sent off a drone with all information including details on Tanna and Pentaurus or did that die with the platform? Next question is was General Bacca still on the platform? I'd bet he left although taking credit for a captured jump engine would be pretty tempting to stay. And since Bacca seems to be smarter than most in the series I imagine he had drones sent to every Jung sector with a battle platform in hopes they reach before a jump ship does.

The Alliance's greatest needs are ships and shields and the greatest threat is the battle platforms. Every platform has to be taken out asap without using ships and falcons. Only concern is what happens to the worlds after a platform is destroyed? Should they be taken out covertly with no one claiming credit in hopes the core worlds aren't glassed assuming that world doesn't get the blame or should the Alliance take credit and give the inhabitants hope and something to fight for? There can not be an ounce of remorse destroying a platform and I'd feel better having Dumar make those decisions than Nathan's indecisiveness. Every "drank the kool aid" Jung on board wouldn't lose a second of sleep glassing Earth or any core world.

I'm not sure any scout ship can be trusted yet to scout out the nearest Jung systems until that spy is caught but instead of cold coasting a scout ship like they did with the falcon how about launching some passive drones on one side of the system and then picking them up on the other side? No point putting a jump engine in too precarious a position.

Let's hope the data ark gives the Alliance some new tech advantages because they don't have the time to build more ships although with Captain Nash's on planet assembly line idea I'd think a deadly gunboat with shields could be produced every few weeks with enough fabricators.

Let’s hope the data ark gives the Alliance some new tech advantages because they don’t have the time to build more ships although with Captain Nash’s on planet assembly line idea I’d think a deadly gunboat with shields could be produced every few weeks with enough fabricators.

This reminds me of the US Liberty Ships program in WW2. Cheap, effective, non-beautiful ships rolling off the line at a tremendous rate. They helped turn the tide in the naval war, same as the production lines making B-25s and the other planes. It could really liven up the Alliance's odds.

I wonder if Dumar's cold, calculating style will allow the Alliance to commit a horrific act while keeping Nathan's nose clean? Like glassing a core world or something similar?

Tanna is definitely overdue for an attack. Time to go into action there.

The last Battle Platform showed some good tactics. I am thinking Gen Bacca would have taken over command in order to use that edge. On the other hand, I doubt Ryk would have written off that character so fast.

Problems using the KKVs seem needlessly complicated. Just place the launcher directly in front of the target so the axis is in line. Then there would be no need to recover it, and if the target jumps then they will still go splat. Alternatively you could shoot from behind, but then you might hit Earth. So sit in front and play chicken.

It seems like time for the spy to try and assassinate Nathan. He gets revealed, and Nathan gets yet another chance to show off his incredible luck. Larry Niven had a character (Teela Brown) who was bred for luck in Ringworld. I figure Nathan is like that.

Of course, the spy **could** be Nathan's former roommate and friend. That would lead to lots of angst at the trial.

It didn't seem like the heroes got the recon finished. They need more charting of Jung flights over more time, so they can do a more systematic job on them.

And definitely a Core World or two needs to be liberated.

Sumomech

Participant
@sumomech

I think the biggest problem for the Alliance is the Battle platforms as there are more than a dozen in service. Two things work on them 1) KKV’s and 2) Mega-plasma cannons.

You missed one....really big rocks.
Take a couple of 20 to 30 kilometer diameter rocks and equip them with jump drives and crude maneuvering (does not need to turn or stop on a dime), make sure the control center and reactors are deep (like dead center) within said rock. The 402's (Falcons) can jump in and out and let the "rock"'s crew know when, where and what trajectory to jump in at.
As was pointed out in episode 12 a big rock wins every time.

We have already seen a Jung spy's in operation on The Aurora with Tony (guy who space jumped to earth with half a parachute). People not in regular contact with Aurora, Celestia, or PC, could be a Jung Spy. Aside from checking if people have lost time, (which will be difficult what with Earth being bombed and stuff) Surely Spec Ops, Earth & Fleet Security Personal are sweeping for hidden communications equipment, Jung Tech or tech that has been adapted to work with Jung Tech.

I don't think Pres Scott has been compromised. Just don't see how he could have been. My guess would have been when he was shot when earth was invaded initially, or around when Jess was ambushed returning to the Aurora after meeting him, but he is the most important man on Earth. How do you loose track of him for a few days of brainwashing. How do you not notice/tolerate lapses in his judgement.

But I do expect Jung Operatives are on earth brainwashing wave after wave of people.

I look forward to the planting of false info to weed out spies.

I'll have to read the section of 12 over again when it was explained how nobles owned Takaran ships but hopefully some noble with a jump drive doesn't give the tech to the Jung. Aren't there also a lot of jump drives on Corninair that a greedy traitorous noble could get his hands on?

If the Alliance can take out every platform (or at least the closest ones) and start a couple more fronts/planets to the war then they should have enough time to match any number of Jung ships assuming they never get a jump drive. I have a feeling the Jung will get the jump drive technology but the data ark has a few new (or would that be old) tricks the Alliance can use.

I've been thinking while re-reading 12 again. The Jung have a 1000 year plan to take over the galaxy and they are only 100s of years in. I take that to mean that they have had Generals and Admirals for generations planning out Galactic supremacy.

That would include Tactics for a lot of scenarios including warp ship battles. A lot of these could be adapted to deal with Jump ships.
The advantage of Jump drives is not leaving a Red/Blue shift trail which Aurora would be able to track but be difficult to follow.

I envisage Jung ships beginning to use running Warp/Jump battles as the threat of Earth/Alliance becomes known.

General Bacca is spreading the word... although it would be a very funny running gag if every time he arrives someplace the Alliance has already/or is just about to hit it. General Bacca the bad news bear 😀

I think one thing that would be very effective is to equip anti-matter mines with sensors that can pick up a "warp bubble" distortion. In doing this, they could effectively be turned into proximity mines. If they were laid out properly, this could then cause a chain reaction with nearby mines that would damage the platform after it is knocked out of FTL.

On another matter, I truly appreciate the way that Ryk has avoided gratuitous sex throughout the entire series. That being said, I am ready for a relationship between Nathan and Jessica that is based on mutual respect and trust that has been built over these months. Their first night was based on wanting to injure/disrespect the people in their respective lives. Obviously, that could go nowhere. I think now is the time to begin that. Seriously, where else are we going to get future generations of Scotts for the next 5 series?

I assume it takes time to detonate an antimatter mine... enough time for a warp speed ship to fly past its explosion. thats why they were detonated on que before the platform got there. it was the shockwave that knocked the Platform out of warp, not the mines themselves...

In fairness I don't see why the aurora couldn't drop conventional mines in the paths of other warp ships previously. (except for the fact they didn't have them and that tactic couldn't have worked previously. (how did you get ahead of the ship when you knew its track).

I would like to find out what happened to Eli Scotts family? I imagine they were shipped to Tannan to protect them from the locals on earth.

Great point that they have to be detonated in a timely manner. However, I stand by my assertion. It would just mean that the sensor would have a wider range. Additionally, I think the timed firing was more a matter of them going off at the same time in the same place to create a large enough disruption.

Good question about Eli's family. They certainly wouldn't have been safe on earth. They also won't be able to carry the family name because no one will want to claim he or she is the child or descendant of the earth's greatest traitor.