The spy is easy. The whole Nash family. A very common name, Jung spies have been settled for generations, and Nash becomes captain because his captain dies in stasis?
Dumar was the logical choice and I bet the Jung already have spies in the PC. Why were the Jung building up Tanna as a staging point?
That being said I love the unexpected, like finding the scout ships, that surprise but are completely believable.
The spy is easy. The whole Nash family. A very common name, Jung spies have been settled for generations, and Nash becomes captain because his captain dies in stasis?
Dumar was the logical choice and I bet the Jung already have spies in the PC. Why were the Jung building up Tanna as a staging point?
That being said I love the unexpected, like finding the scout ships, that surprise but are completely believable.
Captain Nash has the jump drive, he doesn't need to spy on the alliance to get it, LCmdr Nash has had numerous chances to get the info to the Jung and haven't, and the rest of the family likely doesn't have access to or in any case should not have any access to any actionable intelligence.
Doubtful that the Jung have spies in the PC since the jump drive seems to be readily available in the PC and if there were spies they would have already gone back to Jung space.
As for their staging point in Tanna, there may be other systems not under their control, if the PC exists as an entity what is stoping other human settlements in all other directions or they may very well want to expand in the future.
If the Nash's have been there generations, perhaps Capt. Nash would be reluctant to kill his whole crew to steal the jump drive, or he has not been activated. He/They may be under a completely different command authority (perhaps directly from the Jung home world as I believe it is the next system over, that was used for a turn several episodes ago). They may already have the Jump technology. Its only a fifty year sleep to get to the PC at 20light. And if they have the jump, they would stage from Tanna.
You sir Siggie have no imagination.
They may already have the Jump technology. Its only a fifty year sleep to get to the PC at 20light. And if they have the jump, they would stage from Tanna.
You sir Siggie have no imagination.
Assuming the Jung know where the PC is in the first place. What are the chances that the Jung chose a system at random, one thousand light years away from their territory, one system out of potential millions if not billions of star systems?
As for the Jung having the jump drive... Unless the Alliance has a secret fleet of a hundred or more major warships somewhere, if the Jung have access to a working jump drive we can safely say that the Alliance and the PC are screwed beyond belief. And another thing, for the Jung to set up a spy network in the PC they would have to be planning on occupying it within a reasonable time because those spy networks will get weaker with time, one thousand years down the road many of your spy networks will be gone.
As for Captain Nash, are you saying that he will be reluctant to kill his small crew but will have no qualms setting his sister for death along with his whole family if not his whole home planet?
The Jung are insanely driven to conquer all. Would they not send out spies to every possible sector on a continuous basis and be building continually to expand their empire? If they have a jump drive, they still need presence to hold control and must build their fleet ahead of an invasion, especially to a system 1,000 light years away. And their control authority is divided into independent units.
Why does the author set up the scenerio that spies have been generations on earth if it will play no part in the story. Some such spies need to be reveled and if it is someone who just pops into the story all of a sudden it has little to no dramatic affect.
You can make all the arguments you want but the author can do whatever he damn pleases and you can't do anything about it. He tends to solve such problems as you present in very surprising yet completely believable fashion.
Hi all,
I really liked this episode. It worth all the waiting. 🙂
I read EP 12 in one night, read this thread and decided to read all 12 EPs before posting.
Here are my 2 cents:
- I don't know when Mr. Brown decided to publish one book every 3 months but I should say the if it was in the beginning of the series, he has done more than that; not only he kept more or less the delays but he almost doubled the number of pages for each episode. I can only thank you, Mr. Brown, for your hard work and probably the best series I read so far.
- In my opinion, Gen. Bacca left the platform in direction to Tau Ceti when it has dropped FTL the first time after leaving AC. We should remember that the platform was headed between Mu and Eta before change course to Earth.
- Nathan can blow up all platforms in a radius of 20 Lys without risking the Aurora nor the Celestia. It suffice to send the scouts with KKVs and blow them up without confrontation and most important being detected. They can launch the KKVs from a Light day of their position and as the Jung does not expect such attack, shields will be down and no one will know what happened with the BPs to explode in such a manner minimizing the risk to escalate the war. I also think that if they do it that way they can mislead the jungs to think that there is some problem with the platforms despite what Gen. Bacca can say (if I remember correctly, he doesn't know about the KKVs)
Once the BPs are gone they can attack each system easier having as foes only Frigates, Cruisers and Battleships which can be destroyed by the Celestia and the Aurora.
- About the spy.... hard to know as we don't really know if the scouts crews had access to every part of the asteroid, specially to the falcon's bay.
- Miguel Gonzales pointed out something interesting about Capt Dubnyk. I don't think he is Capt Jung but I think he knows who he is and where he was headed when he left Earth. In EP 9 Mr. Brown gave us a clue: ...“Opportunities indeed,” he mumbled, a mischievous look in his eyes. (Kindle Locations 4732-4733).
- Dumar is a good choice. Being a CI operative he will be able to help not only with the PC Earth relations but to annihilate the jung operatives on Earth and most important Tug told Nathan twice to trust him.
- Definitively returning the freighter full of propellant will help Tug acquire his fortune faster and at the same time improve the help to Earth and Tanna which I believe will be very important to develop the commerce exchange between the PC and the Core.
- One thing tat I keep asking myself is what Tanna has done all these months to increase its security? Refurbish the 5th moon fighter's? Start it's own warships program? Even if they do not have enough people to move fast, I can't believe that they are doing nothing to defend themselves or the Aliance they have joined.
ok.. why does everyone think we need to know who the spy is already? He/She could be an unintroduced charactor at this point.. Might be the cook!
The Jung are insanely driven to conquer all. Would they not send out spies to every possible sector on a continuous basis and be building continually to expand their empire? If they have a jump drive, they still need presence to hold control and must build their fleet ahead of an invasion, especially to a system 1,000 light years away. And their control authority is divided into independent units.
Why does the author set up the scenerio that spies have been generations on earth if it will play no part in the story. Some such spies need to be reveled and if it is someone who just pops into the story all of a sudden it has little to no dramatic affect.
You can make all the arguments you want but the author can do whatever he damn pleases and you can’t do anything about it. He tends to solve such problems as you present in very surprising yet completely believable fashion.
How would they know where to look? We are talking about a handful of systems 1000 ly +/- 100 ly from the Jung home system, why look at exactly 1000 ly and not 400 ly? Why look in that direction?
The jump drive gives the alliance and advantage that can, if used properly defeat a much larger enemy. So why would a spy who already has access to the drive risk his ship in order to facilitate a risky attack on an asteroid base in order to capture that which you already have?
I never said that spies will not play a part, and the author can make Nathan Scott the spy if he chose to, what I am saying is that if the spy has access to a jump drive ship why not just jump to the nearest Jung base or sabotage one of the ships so it cannot escape boarding?
And as for your last comment, I'm not trying to do anything about it, I'm sure the author already has an outline on how the story will go but seeing as everyone is engaged in discussing how it will go I don't see why I should not present legitimate arguments. Seems to me you can't come up with a good answer to any of the questions and you end up doing the online version of throwing a tantrum...
What's the story with Master Chief Taggart. Is he a Jung spy or one of the old Pale Militia's soldiers like Casmir pretended to be? He doesn't have a family, but he adopted a kid... a family man is less likely to stand out. But he is comfortable in charge of slaves. I like the guy and I know for sure that he is far to valuable for the Alliance to lose. But most notably Jess is suspicious of him and Jess is amazing, so you know if she suspects him, he is probably Capt Jung in disguise or !!! Jess is falling in love with him!!! It all makes perfect sense now!!!
KKV Strategy!!!
The only reason I don't think they shot a KKV from behind was that the BP was changing direction the last stretch of the journey to earth after the TOT attacks. The KKV tailing the BP at the same speed is brilliant a brilliant though and I imagine it will be used to great success. The only way it can be avoid it is if they knew it was coming (like foldwarping over the KKV / traitors spilling the beans). Of course it's impractical when the BP in Ep12 was on its final line to earth... which is why I imagine it wasn't used... if they miss earth would be very close at 100 (or just 20) light.
Actually as soon as they use KKV's the Jung will come up with counter moves, like random mini FTL's. But it may become standard Jung strategy to detonate antimatter mines in there ships wake before the drop out of FTL to destroy tracking KKV's. I look forward to Josh and Loki being a little rattled when they jump into the edge of an antimatter event. (It could be a great way of the Alliance flushing out spy's by leaking KKV targets and looking for Jung reactions)
Fuel inefficiency!!!
I find it amusing that the Alliance use so little fuel when the Jung are going to be using so damn much in the coming books 😀 When your enemy destroys your fuel depo's before you know you have an enemy. That's when you know your losing.
ok.. why does everyone think we need to know who the spy is already? He/She could be an unintroduced charactor at this point.. Might be the cook!
Quick! Call Jack Ryan! oh, wait....
I believe that since the BP is heading toward Earth and you shot the KKV toward it it would surely hit the BP but then you have this debris field hurtling toward the planet a better option would be to shot directly in front of it but then they could FTL/ fold space again
What I don't understand is that when the Aurora and the the Celestia did their T.O.T.attack why didn't they blow up the platform? Abby mentioned earlier that when the platform is folding space they wouldn't be able to run the shield simultaneously unless of course they have more than enough antimatter reactor?
No tantrum, just an expression of the ultimate, all encompassing, irrefutable power of the author.
If the spy were someone yet to be introduced you waste alot of potential drama.
Why would the Jung choose a system 1000 light years away to investigate? My point was they would choose all systems in their fanatical pursuits for power and their knowledge of the panicked dispersal of mankind in relation to the digital plague. Death, a scout ultimately finding nothing and unable to return, would not be a deterrant to the Jung.
Just got to say, if you want to base in the Azores, you got to go with Lajes Field AFB on Terceira island. Suggest moving over there, it's worth the small jump... 🙂
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Well, there has been a lot of angst in this forum over who is or isn't "The Spy". Maybe a little rigorous analysis can shed some light on who the "spy" might be or if there is a "spy" at all. So here goes; (Book=BK/Kindle Location = KL)
FACTS:
1. Capt. Scott's "suspicions" that there might be a spy begins during the 1st KKV attack on the Battle Platform (BP) in the SOL system (BK12/KL5774). This KKV attack is the 3rd attack by the Alliance on the BP while en-route to SOL. The 1st attack was with time-on-target plasma shots that were simply bent by the warping of space around the BP. If the Jung can warp space they probably have the technology to know that plasma weapons were fired at them while at warp. The 2nd was the anti-matter mines in-conjunction with the T-O-T plasma shots. The Jung thwarted that attack by simply going back into warp. Remember, the Jung are fast learners and on the 3rd attack used a mini-FTL jump to pummel the Aurora with missiles. I don't find that "suspicious" but tactically smart! They were ready for the Alliance the 3rd time around!!! Their tactics approaching earth demonstrate their ability to adapt!
2. Contrary to Nathan's claim (BK12/KL6700), Capt. Roselle was on the Karuzara for dinner right after the Karuzara arrived in earth orbit (BK12/KL5123). At that dinner Cdr. Dumar reveals that they have created a separate operational hangar for the Falcons, complete with their own access tunnels (BK12/KL5163). Besides Roselle there was Capt. Scott, Capt. Poc, Capt. Taylor and LCDR Kamenetskiy.
3. Scout 3 was inside the Karuzara getting jump drive/arrays installed for some time. The crew had access to the Karuzara facilities. Scout 3 departs the Karuzara (BK12/KL5204-5282) for its initial jump drive test.
4. Stasis pods/humans are not fail proof - they can malfunction or have heart failure. Also, stasis pods as shown in BK 7 "The Expanse" have activation/deactivation timers on them. It would be easy to prove if the original Scout 3 Captains pod had been assessed/tampered with.
5. When the Karuzara entered earth orbit, the Aurora (Mr. Navashee) did a scan of the astroid (BK12/KL5108) that revealed quite a lot about the internal structure. The BP had plenty of time before and after the collision to scan the Karuzara. Again, Jung sensor technology, while unknown, cannot be dismissed as being incapable of fully mapping the internal structure of the Karuzara.
6. All the intelligence gathered in the universe by a spy is useless until that info is communicated to the enemy. Capt. Scott admits they have not been able to establish a communication trail. Normal sensor or communication systems would be able to be analyzed for nefarious transmission(s). The only way I can think of being successful would be using tight, directional laser comm outside of Alliance systems. This is of course speed of light communications that would take a long time to travel some of the distances involved. And the mechanics of being able to use the equipment is NOT a simple task!
7. Capt. Scott assumes that the "spy" has to be part of the Aurora or Celestia crew and has cut the possibility down to 80 personnel. Beside Capts. Scott and Roselle, LT (CDR) Telles and LCDR Nash believe there has to be a spy. Interestingly, CDR (ADM) Dumar has not made any reference to a spy.
NOT THE SPY:
1. Contrary to Capt. Scott I don't believe any original crew member (how many are still alive) or crew from the PC on either the Aurora or Celestia are a spy. They have all been through far to much in far too many situations to all of a sudden activate to help the 2nd Jung BP defeat the Alliance. Doesn't scratch my common sense nerve.
2. Master Chief Taggart - I single the MC out because of a conversation between Capt. Nash and LCDR Nash (BK12/KL4790-4805) that seems to create suspicion of him. If LCDR Nash couldn't do a background check on Taggart what data base did she use on Josh, Lokie, Dumar, etc. For MC Taggart to be a Jung spy the Jung would have had to have begun infiltrating the PC 50-100 years ago depending on their FTL capabilities at the time. And that doesn't even take into account everything MC Taggart has done for the Alliance. I just can't see him betraying Josh and Lokie.
3. Capt Poc - Capt. Poc has fully supported and counseled Nathan from the start (BK12/KL4592-4618). He has had access to a jump equipped Scout long enough that he could have easily incapacitated his crew and jumped to Jung space.
4. Capt. Nash - Just like Capt Poc he has a jump equipped Scout under his command and could jump to Jung space. I believe the original Capt was killed by a stasis pod malfunction. Capt Nash betrayal would ensure the death of his entire family and simply doesn't fit the profile (BK12/KL5445). That is contrary to Eli who deluded himself into believing what he was doing was best for his family and earth.
5. Ens. Agari (Toosh) - well just because a dude frequents the head a lot doesn't make him a spy! Just how would he be able to communicate with the Jung light years away sitting on the pot - by using the toilet roll tube as a megaphone??
6. Cdr Kovacic - Ordered by Adm Garibaldi to take command of the Celestia and make her disappear, LCDR Kovacic did just that. He could have betrayed the location of the Celestia at any time. His actions are irrefutably loyal.
7. Pres Scott - To have two individuals from the same family betray earth is too coincidental and a literary faux-paw (I know there was the Walker Family). His body of work since the original Jung attack is above reproach. He was also the target of an assassination attempt.
MY SUSPECT(S): not in any particular order
1. Capt. Roselle - His Scout ship was held in reserve during the battle as a potential last resort asset. He had access to the targeting data being sent to the other Scout ships. He had visited the Karuzara.
2. Pres Scott - hey I know I already claim he is not a suspect but what if the Jung were able to recondition him while he was in their custody and he has no cognitive knowledge of his duplicity.
WHAT I THINK:
1. There is NO spy. Initial impressions and conclusion would seem to allude to a spy but Capt Scott, Roselle, Cdr Tellis (which makes it harder to dispell since I highly value his intuition) and Jessica are all over reaching. They are not giving the Jung enough military capability prowness.
Thats my 2 cents but I defer to Ryk since it is is story to write.
