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Episode 12 SPOILER Thread. Discussion

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 Gary
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(@gbone)
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Joined: 11 years ago

Jumping rock balls and kkvs. Sweet.

One thought. Why not jump in behind the platform and send a kkv chasing it at the same speed so if they drop out of FTL to alter course that get hit from behind?

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Posts: 42
(@peacecraft)
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Joined: 11 years ago

I like the use of anti-matter mines/kkvs. Now that we have an admiral we should see better tactics for the jump drive. I love Captain Scott but between the new Captians and Admiral Dunar we will see the face of space battles change.

I wonder whom the spy is...

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(@glynnstewart)
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Joined: 10 years ago

Loved the story, but I have to say Dumar's promotion at the end seemed completely out of left field to me. With no explanation or justification, they suddenly put a foreigner - someone who worked for the Takarans and oversaw mass murder on Corinair at that! - in charge of all of Earth's defenses?

No reasoning given in the story to justify it either, so it left me scratching my head and more than a little bit nonplussed at the end.

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(@rykbrown)
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Glynn, I'm afraid you have your history of Dumar mixed up. He was in charge of the counter insurgency forces on Corinair. He had no hand in the attacks against that world. All he did was to free the captured command staff of the Yamaro and provide them with troops and transport to try and take the Aurora (and the Yamaro).

There were little hints spread throughout books 4 & 5, admittedly perhaps not enough, eluding to Dumar's background. He was, in fact, once Casimir's (Tug's) personal bodyguard. Once Casimir was believed dead, he spent years, first in combat, then in intelligence. During his days in intelligence, he discovered evidence that Caius had murdered his own father and had Casimir assassinated. Tired of it all, he eventually used this evidence to secure himself the position on Corinair, where his intent was to marry, have kids, and eventually retire to Corinair. But when he discovered that Casimir was in fact alive, and the leader of the Karuzari, he killed his second (so that he could not report it to Caius in order to gain favor for himself) and then set out to find "Tug" and determine if he really was Casimir.

So, you see, Dumar is not only more qualified than anyone else to lead the Alliance forces, but he has always been, and will always be, loyal to Prince Casimir, who in turn feels obligated to support Nathan and Earth as much as possible.

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Posts: 71
(@christh)
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Joined: 11 years ago

as overwatch for the asteroid, Admiral does make sense for Dumar, sort of like a 2 star in charge of a specialized department of our current military.

Nathan couldn't be promoted to admiral and keep command of the Aurora. It would have put him in a non combat oriented role. Dumar is a specialist. He also showed his resolve to end the jung by moving the asteroid into the platform with a snapjump.
Roselle is going to be a major jackass, until he takes a wrong step near a Ghatazhak and gets his jaw cracked for his big mouth.

The renewal of Casimir's fortune by propellant sales will fix the issue with the nobles when they are looking up yet again to the rich Casimir.

jump coms connecting the PC to Sol is awesome.

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(@mpstrong1414)
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I loved the story as well but was frustrated by the number of times they failed to kill that battle platform. There's never a nova bomb around when you need one I guess. Command ranks have been too low for a long time. XOs on capital ships should be commanders, as well as senior department head such as CHENG. Helmsman should be at least a Sr Lt (03).

What you could do is promote Nathan to Commodore in which case he would still be able to be in charge of a ship. In sailing days a commodore was simply the senior captain of a small squadron. If Nathan got promoted to commodore he wouldn't have to put up with Roselle's BS. He could have Roselle keelhauled or flogged around the fleet for insolence (Wonder how that would work out in space? <evil grin>). As you can surmise, Capt Roselle did not appeal to me. He was not in Nathan's chain of command and although senior was the same pay grade which did not give him the right to be an arrogant SOB. In the book's defense though, the other 2 scout captains did call him out about his anal behavior.

Sign - Got the book at 10:30 last night and finished it about 4:00 AM. Now I have to wait another 4 months to find out what happens next. Is there a snerk page handy?

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Posts: 4
(@glynnstewart)
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Joined: 10 years ago

I seem to recall that the Corinair counter-insurgency forces did more than a little massacring of their own, but its been a while since I've re-read the entire series.

It still seems strange to me that Earth would put someone from the Takaran cluster in charge of their defenses without it even being commented on as strange or out of place, but if Ryk says it made sense to them, I'm not one to argue with the author XD

This book kept me entertained all morning at the office (it's not MY fault certain system actions mean I can't touch my computer for twenty minutes!) so I'm definitely not complaining!

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(@jabbyone)
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OK so here's my 2 cents.
1. Who started the Alliance?
2. Who gave the so called allies the jump drive tech in order to start The Alliance?
Nathan.. So that makes him the most Senior Officer of the Alliance period. Since we now have Dumar as an Admiral
And we don't know how it came about seems like it was Nathan who said on you need to be an Admiral and so made it so.
3. As for the 3 Scout Captains. 2 were Senior to Nathan.. Nathan promoted the other.. Senior to him in an organization that no longer exists. Making them Captains in the New Alliance is not a problem but without their time in grade Why again Nathan is the most Senior Officer in the Alliance. Conflict makes a good Story but only when it's plausible.
I love the story and have read it all 3 times.. but at time it leaves me shaking my head ..
The next chapter will finally have them getting Shields all the hints are there all the unused space will give them the room for the new generators and more weapons.. just my guess

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Posts: 42
(@sno-duc)
Eminent Member
Joined: 11 years ago

Actually Dumar is the perfect choice.
He has never had any contact with the Jung, so can not possibly be a Jung operative.
Has decades of military experience, been thru war college.

Captain Scott is in the place he needs to be, he has more experience fighting a jump-drive equipped ship than anyone, put someone else in the captains chair of the Aurora and they would have to go thru the same learning curve, there is no "book" to refer to it's being written by Nathan.

What happened to that weasel General Bacca, did he cut -n- run again?

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Posts: 230
 Gary
Topic starter
(@gbone)
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I think Dumar is a good choice as well. As it is most of the personel are not from earth.

About that spy. My thought is that it is a member of Nashes crew. My thought is people just do not die in stasis. I don't think it is anyone with pilot skills as they could have just stolen a Falcon and jumped away. Probably a sensor operator as an engineer would also be able to operate the ship. Just my guess.

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(@glynnstewart)
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Joined: 10 years ago

I think Dumar is a good choice as well. As it is most of the personel are not from earth.

About that spy. My thought is that it is a member of Nashes crew. My thought is people just do not die in stasis. I don’t think it is anyone with pilot skills as they could have just stolen a Falcon and jumped away. Probably a sensor operator as an engineer would also be able to operate the ship. Just my guess.

He's not a bad choice, just an odd one that feels like we missed a scene of explanation...

As for the spy, we can assume a few things
1) they're not from the Takaran cluster
2) they're probably not from the Aurora's original crew (though this one could be argued...)
3) they're almost certainly not from the Celestia crew (or they'd have betrayed the data ark)
4) they're probably a named character we've already met (this is somewhat meta, but makes sense from a storytelling perspective

Unfortunately, roll this up with the sudden death of his Captain and Ryk's tendency to torture his characters, I see the arrows pointing to Captain Nash...

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 Gary
(@garu)
Active Member
Joined: 11 years ago

In response to Mike Smith's post:
Actually, I'm kind of glad they failed to kill the platform right away. Too many of he battles are so lopsided toward the Aurora. I am surprised tho that the commander somehow got so smart considering the conversation he had with the general back at Kent.
Tech:
I hate so say it, but by all appearances, the Jung have somehow found a way to either locate or plot the jumps as demonstrated by the ability to dodge the KKV's and to start firing at the Aurora before she jumped in to attack. If somehow they could cloak.... hmmmm. Who knows what tech could be found in the data ark! If they could get a FTL that folds space and use it in conjunction with the jump drive, it could offer some interesting options. ZPEDs could power the FTL as it has high power requirements too. Perhaps they could use the jump drive on some smaller asteroids to make a heck of a KKV.

I wished we got a clue to help us guess at the identity of the spy. Speaking to that, I thought the President had been broken by the Jung when they captured him...

I think they should make Nathan an Admiral since he is in charge of a battle force. If he has to start dealing with the other Captains for permission whenever he makes a plan, that will get old quick. I can see him using their expertise to offer counsel but... Plus Dumar is now his senior also which could make the overall mission take an altogether different direction depending on what he wants the priorities to be. The biggest draw to this series is how Nathan is able to plan and act on his own.

Loved the story - thanks again Ryk for a really good read.

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Posts: 45
(@siggie)
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Joined: 10 years ago

As for the 3 Scout Captains. 2 were Senior to Nathan.. Nathan promoted the other.. Senior to him in an organization that no longer exists. Making them Captains in the New Alliance is not a problem but without their time in grade Why again Nathan is the most Senior Officer in the Alliance. Conflict makes a good Story but only when it’s plausible.

In a real military organization at least 8 members of the 3 scout ships would legally be senior to him because although he is a captain he would be essentially acting/lacking. He was promoted to the Rank of Lt and we can safely assume that the EDF HQ approved of that promotion so that still leaves a temporary battlefield promotion. Legally in real life it would leave him in a place where he would be obligated to hand over command to the most senior surviving officer and possibly revert back to his previous rank of Lt at which point seniority would be judged based on time in/courses/etc... There is the NAU president who I believe if I'm not mistaking confirmed the promotions but that is a questionable position to hold at best. The only real reason he could retain command of the Aurora and Celestia is because they are in the grey area of being Alliance ships/EDF ships with majority crew and ground forces being from the PC therefore there is a little ambiguity as to the seniority and ranks of the 8 EDF officers and legality of taking command of vessels that might no longer belong to the organization they represent.

As for Dumar? He is the most likely commander of the Alliance in Sol Sector simply because he represents the most powerful member of the alliance, the member who is sending all sorts of much needed aid, as well as at some future point potentially capital ships. As well since the majority of the crew for the both warships, the base, all of the jump fighters, ground forces and and all transportation vessels are from the PC it makes sense to have him in command, which avoids the perception of President Scott promoting/appointing his son to the rank of admiral over the heads of more senior officers which could cause problems with the EDF officers and potentially the civilian population of Earth and Tanna further down the road.

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Posts: 81
(@olympe)
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Joined: 10 years ago

I'm totally wondering what the change is that Ryk mentioned. The change that will have ripple effects in later parts.

My personal guess is that it is the Jung's space-warping technology. Not only does it help to explain why the Alliance forces miss that darn battle platform time and again, there might also be some tactical finesse connected with just that ability. Of course, it might also be the ability to tell where a ship is going to jump - but I don't think so. It's been established early on that a ship can only jump in the exact direction it moves anyway. Only the distance would have to be guessed. But it's still a pretty tight corridor you'd need to monitor.

I'm also very interested in figuring out who the spy is this time. Jalea's double agenda - or whatever it was - had been hinted at from early on, so she was a very obvious choice. The same is true for Nathan's brother Eli, who has proven himself an asshole time and again. If we go by the same parameters, it would have to be Rosell. Considering how he grills Nathan about his investigation into the recent spy affair, it seems even more natural, especially considering that he got cleared by Nathan at once. But Ryk can't be that obvious again, can he?

Anyway, as much as I enjoyed this episode - and I did, honestly! - there was one thing that got on my nerves time and again. There were just too many formating issues. Like "Camer on" or even quotation marks at the beginning of direct speech, followed by two or even three blank spaces.

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Posts: 42
(@sno-duc)
Eminent Member
Joined: 11 years ago

Siggie, it's also a matter of experience. Nathan and Cam have fought jump-ship battles, the 8 senior EDF officers have not.
Kinda of like giving Lee or Grant command of Patton's third Army. Lee and Grant were both brilliant civil war generals and after a while would learn tank warfare, but it would take time.

The Celestia's XO should be put in command of the Karuzara base. Wasn't his mos supply?

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