Ooh, Hamsterman, I very much like two of those: the Data Cores going back to Pentaurus cluster sounds like a great sub-plot, plus they could make better use of the knowledge there than (apparently) anyone in the Terran Sector. It could lead to some interesting developments about 3 books later, after Takaran scientists get a look at those files.
Plus, your speculation on Dubnyk matches my thoughts, but goes further. I would not be surprised if you are dead on there.
To riff on spying... The current NSA scandals show just how effective a government can be at spying if they have no moral restrictions. I think just about any rebel group would collapse pretty quickly in such an environment. On the other hand, the Jung can't be that numerous. How many total Jung can they have on planet Earth? 50,000? 100,000? Out of a billion or more natives? Either they start recruiting locals fast, or they could be killed off pretty quickly as soon as their air & space capabilities are cut off.
And I agree, the remaining 1/2 of the Intrepid's crew seem like they deserve the opportunity to pay back the Jung, and the Celestia would make a great platform for them. It would make for a very satisfactory battle scene.
On the other hand, Ryk seems to like mixing up the crews with multiple origin groups. Perhaps he'll go through some plot contortions and have the Captain of the Avendahl need replacement crew and have them step in there? I'm just looking for the non-obvious path here. I actually think Hamsterman is right.
On the discovery of the Celestia, I'm thinking Aurora's arrival generated a pretty bright flash, right after the flash from the arriving and departing jump shuttle. It seems to me that the Jung will pick up that flash, come investigate, and the Aurora will be busy lashing themselves to the Celestia in order to make the rescue jump. That will leave the Aurora vulnerable, and have a tight time table to get ready and leave.
But I still wish the Aurora would jump into Earth orbit and do propaganda broadcasts.
Eric, I pretty much agree. If the EDF is using commercial communications, then as soon as the Jung can fully tap into them the EDF will suffer. However, while the NSA might show one example, Afghanistan shows a different example. Some high or future tech can be added to those methods, I suppose.
I can't really estimate the number of Jung troops. What confused me was that I figured they would be greatly outnumbered, and concentrate on a few key places first, then expand. However, what I understood from the 7th book was that the EDF and militia started falling apart even with numbers on their side. Recovering from a blow like that is going to be tough.
On the other hand, unless the Jung brought in mostly Civil Affairs troops (think US occupation of Japan & Germany, the CA training started as soon as the war started!) I can't see how they could get things rebuilt with local labor, let alone constructing new bases in a few months where the EDF had decades.
As for the CVs, unless the Jung have observatories beyond the orbit of Jupiter, they probably are still undetected. I fully expect the Aurora jumped in on the dark side of Jupiter. Metis is pretty close in, with only an 8 hour orbit or so, which means it Jupiter will block any direct view from Earth, Mars, and the Asteroid belt. There are also lighting storms on Jupiter (!) so bright flashes on the dark side aren't unheard of. Lastly, the Epilogue didn't mention anything them being detected, and it may have taken place after the other events in the book.
Tam,
I think the not knowing what was on the ship was a bit of confusion on all parts. When the new midshipmen boarded the Celestia, they were told that the interior wasn't finished and that they'd have to go between Engineering and the Bridge using spacesuits. No one actually said there were any on board! Also, the Celestia CO mentioned that they had enough life support for months, maybe years, and he was right. I agree he should have been putting his crew to work doing stuff to keep them busy, like doing an inventory and building a corridor between the areas with life support, etc. This may be a leadership issue, and he did say he was logistics, not command. Three months and they read manuals? Next thing you know they'll find Janitor 3rd Class Roger Wilco sleeping in an escape pod.
Tyler,
If a warship from Pentaurus arrives, their ZPD-powered shields would make them nearly invulnerable. That would come in handy if attacking a Battle Platform head-on. Even with the jump drive, Earth and Tanna are a day apart for the Aurora, so they do need more ships. They might be able to rig up deep space sensor platforms that get frequently visited by jump shuttles in order to detect 'emissions' from inbound FTL ships. A sensor a light week away from a system can still give a couple days warning if a ship passes within (5 divided by its light speed multiple) days. Since a cruiser can go 10x light speed, that would be half a light day. Hopefully fixed defenses and fighters can take on gunboats, which are faster.
Here's a quick question - we are all assuming that Nathan goes on to command the retaking of Earth etc.. but have we resolved the rank issue? As far as I can see he is acting Captain and in command of Aurora but his permanent rank is Lieutenant. He doesn't technically outrank Kovacic does he?
I think at this point Nathan is more or less at the rank of Captain. He's negotiated an alliance and he is the in command of the only rated warship left for the EDF (Celestia is basically a hull, not a combat ship.) I don't think anyone will quibble about the permanency of his rank. Besides, the crew of the Aurora would back him, and the Ghatazhak are obviously (well close enough) going to follow him.
Yeah, I keep wondering if the Admiral or the Pres gave a different order to Nathan, what would happen. Just curious.
Also, Nathan has changed due to the responsibility. Will he change again after he singlehandedly liberates dozens of worlds and holds all the remaining military power in his hands? 😉
I think the sensor platforms are a good idea, but taken further. If and when the Falcon starts recon runs of Jung systems, have it take a platform and drop it off outside the system to monitor what goes on. A jump shuttle can check in every few days by jumping "behind" the platform relative to the system (to hide the jump flash).
I don't know what the material requirements or production time for such a platform would be, so this might be a long term project. However, Tug's daughter already worked out that method to sync communications and such in Head of the Dragon, so it should be relatively simple to use it for sensor data.
it just hit me that the situation with eli and Nathan parallels tug and his brother
I think the mole is Tony... supposed to be captured or dead but is instead part of the resistance.... I think the General isn't the only one who was "reprogramed".
My 2c
I have to say, that makes a lot of sense. Planted with a group that was trying to make contact with the resistance, wait and see if anything pans out. Worst case scenario, the Jung kill him, no loss of their own guy.
Honestly, that was my first thought when we saw Tony being left behind in the last book. "Watch out, he'll be back as a spy"
The Jung have to prove they are the bad guys. They have to kill widows and orphans. They have to kick a dog. They have to be so evil that we cheer when they die. The measure of a hero is the villain he defeats.
And so they have to not only use Tony, but Eli, and maybe also the Pres and Admiral. They have to prove they have no moral standing whatsoever.
My $0.02... 😉
Not sure how close this fleets regulations are to US Navy regulations but they say the following regarding command.
Section 1004 (precedence of an officer in command)
An officer , either of the line or of a staff corps detailed to command by competent authority (can be a captain..looked it up) or has succeeded to command has precedence over all officers or other persons of whatever rank and whether they are of the line or the staff corps. (I take this to mean in regards to commanding his ship)
So under this even if the captain had not given Nathan a battle field promotion he still would have had legal command. also it doesn't look like it can be removed without a higher competent authority which rules out the Lt Commander. I'm not sure that even one of the used to be admirals could do it as they draw authority from the government..which no longer exists except for the resistance. Nathan also draws some authority from the treaties he signed who recognize him as captain.
This one could be important as well.
Section 1026 (Authority of an officer who succeeds to command)
An officer who succeeds to command due to incapacity, death, departure on leave, detachment without relief or absence due to orders from competent authority of the officer detailed to command, has the same authority and responsibility as the officer he or she succeeds.
Now since the earth government was defeated and he was in command at that time.. whatever surrender terms would apply..but that wouldn't change his status as captain. Like at the end of ww1 all German uboats were to go to a designated point to surrender. Not all the captains agreed with the order and some went other places and some scuttled the boats rather then give them to the allies. So in a way by our laws Nathans country lost the war and he and his crew are a little like pirates if they don't follow the terms laid out by the new government. Yeah we know that's not going to happen but my point is I don't think anybody can legally relieve him at this point except his Xo for cause..unless he just agrees to give up his command.
Thanks for looking that up, guys. Of course Ryk can make up anything he wants, especially with the break in civilization for hundreds of years, but that seems to clarify much of the discussion for me.
Twips,
Thanks a lot. That was very interesting and educational.
The Jung have to prove they are the bad guys. They have to kill widows and orphans. They have to kick a dog. They have to be so evil that we cheer when they die. The measure of a hero is the villain he defeats.
With that in mind, then perhaps the wanna-be resistance group was being run by the Jung. Then the brave Jung soldiers were going to save the civilians, until the unexpected arrival of a trained spec-ops. I still don't know Tony's role in all this.
Honestly, I figured the characters on Earth were going to stay there, in order to give the readers a grounds-eye view of the battlefield. Now, if Tony has been programmed to be a Jung spy, then he might get caught, and then the good guys might learn of this Jung ability and stand up to a direct order from the Admiral. They might even be able to deprogram him...
