So, Jessica was on board during the previous, 12-shot testing. Her Psi powers supercharged the cannons to fire both faster and in increased quantity?
Mr. Randeen was incompetent, and hit the “Slow fire” button?
A cloaked Romulan Warbird was sitting directly behind the Aurora, and when she fired they fired also (11 times) to make up the difference
No it wasn't the Romulans it was the Klingons!! And Jessica is only a P-10 Cam is a P-12 she boosted the torpedoes.
Or was it the vorlons they love messing with the younger races?
Based on information from Episode 7.
1 Plasma torpedo = 100 plasma cannon shots.
The cruiser at location 5969 had shields, damage to forward sections, forward missile battery, and rail guns with only the plasma cannon and even started venting atmosphere. The single nuke they fired later ended up finishing the ship off. I quote Garrett at location 4627 in Episode 7, "What the Jung lack in intelligence they make up for with technology stolen from those they conquer."
Think the Jung upgraded their shields or 'tuned' them for plasma based weapons? If that is the case, one of the conquered worlds may of had plasma weapons and shielding to protect against them, but didn't have the power requirements to have a plasma weapon on a ship, but the shielding ability was added to all ships. Since they didn't know the Aurora had plasma weapons, maybe they left the plasma 'tuning' disabled to reduce power requirements.
Also, don't you think the Jung adapted a little to fast to stopping a jump direct enabled ship in Ep 10? For not being intelligent, they pretty much knew what the Aurora had a jump drive and the restrictions on it based on the short battle that they had.
Not sure we will get an answer to the explanation, but we can at least assume that the inconsistencies won't be caulked up to the fact that each book takes place in an alternate dimension...
I normally would not get involved in these discussions, as it's too easy for a "spoiler" to slip into the conversation. But I'd like to point out one thing that you all seem to be forgetting. Tanna was about 45 light years from Sol, and it was on the 'edge' of the fringe. The Tannans said the Jung homeworld was on the other side of the core. One might easily conclude from that statement that the 'core' (fringe included) might be as large as 100ly in diameter. Considering the time involved in building a ship that can travel such distances at FTL speeds, do you think every ship is going to be equipped the same way? Are not many of today's military ships equipped differently? Some with better systems than others?
This is very true I think most people still had the mindset of the PC where the systems were closer and the tech on the ships were near the same. The core being bigger makes sense on the different level of tech per ship.
Mr. Brown has created the most realistic military sci-fi I have read in a long time. Thank you for all your hard work and dedication to detail.
Gee, I was thinking British Navy A Fleet / B Fleet / C Fleet, or the navy version of Guard / Expeditionary / Garrison. In WWI, the German East Asiatic Squadron caught the British Navy 'C Team' near the Falkland Islands and sank them. When the British sent their 'A team', the Germans lost.
Since the Earth was among the last to get invaded, however, I would have thought the plan to take it and Alpha Centauri wouldn't be using the C teams (as seen on Tanna). But then, that assumes that the conquest had the highest priority. There may be something else going on.
Thank you Mr. Brown for the clarification. In that case, the Jung are more interested in spending as many resources as necessary to accomplish their goal, as long as the more valuable ships are preserved. Would explain why the battle platforms come in after a solar system has be conquered instead of joining the fight.
Hmmm. Very cool level of detail, Ryk. Thanks!
I (also) always wondered why the Battle Platform didn't join the fight, but just showed up later.
And more on Battle Platforms: Are they stationary, meaning they were towed into position? Or are they mobile, and can get up to FTL on their own? I am still wanting to take them all out with KKVs in a quick sniper run by the Celestia, if possible.
Hey everyone. I am new to the Frontier Saga forums but I have thoroughly enjoyed reading all of the discussions, speculations and suggestions across the full spectrum of forum topics. This particular topic, 'Episode Inconsistencies' tweaked my curiosity for two reasons; 1. A few Kindle reviews had noted them and 2. I had picked up on a few myself.
But before I "mention" those inconsistencies a little background information may help to alleviate any potential animosity from what I say below. I am a retired Navy Commander with boo-coupe hours as an F-14 Radar Intercept Officer(RIO). I was an operational tester on all 3 versions of the Tomcat (F-14A/B/D) and went thru Topgun in 1981 which tells you that I was around long before the bio-digital plague. However, the one thing about aviators, no matter which service they fly for or type of aircraft flown, debriefs are where the lessons learned are gleaned and discussed in a respectfully critical aspect. Topgun teaches the technique of "good" & "others" and that is how I will approach my "lessons learned" here.
THE GOOD (and these are extremely good in my humble opinion):
1. The Frontiers' Saga Concept.
Mr. Brown you have hit on a superb concept with an outstanding long-range plan. The way you have laid the foundation for the Frontiers Saga gives you the flexibility to write sequels or prequels with multiple plot tracks. I have read each of the first 10 books at least twice and always read the previous book before starting your most current release. I am looking forward to book #11-15 and then where you take the Saga from there.
2. Individual Book Plots.
Ryk great job developing and expanding on each plot from book-to-book. From book 1 where the Aurora is the "newbie" on the scene to Book 10 where she has become "The Force" to deal with I have throughly enjoyed the progression. By doing a super jump to the Pentaurus Cluster (PC) it gave you the opportunity to flush out the characters, technologies, tactics and allies that were all going to be needed to confront and defeat the Jung. What I really like is that you use human adversaries. That levels the playing field and just seems to make it all more plausible.
3. Character Development.
Outstanding job developing each of the numerous characters that have been involved to date. I especially like the development of Nathan's naivety to sophisticated command captain. Judiciously using Tug to provide suggested guidance and wisdom was superb. The interaction among Nathan, Jessica, Cameron and Vlad is entertaining, fun and very believable after all that has transpired. Makes me want to be a part of the command staff! One last note is that you are not afraid to kill off characters which is definitely going to happen in combat.
4. Technologies.
Ok we are talking about science fiction here but some of the technologies are plausible even today (ie. lasers, rail guns, nuc propulsion, KKVs, layered armor). I think the level of technologies are very reasonable for SF and that makes it a more pleasant read.
THE OTHER (and these are definitely NOT show stoppers or egregious errors. I got curious from other forum/reviewer comments and decided to cross-reference the first ten books to see where certain capabilities stand. For nomenclature I used; B# for the Book / KL# for the Kindle Location number)
1. Shields.
The Jung are mentioned to having shields from gunboat to battleship (I'm assuming the in system battle stations would have them) in B1/KL1689, B7/KL5973 and B10/KL2274. They have shields.
2. Torpedoes.
The Auroras' normal load out is 60 torpedoes. It was mentioned in Book 1 that the Aurora was not completely armed initially so that is an unknown. However, B6/KL7201 states that the Aurora is completely rearmed prior to leaving the Ta'Akar shipyard. That shipyard refit included 23 Ta'Akar cruise missiles converted to fit the Auroras' torpedo tubes- B7/KL314. Subsequently, multiple engagements starting with B7/KL5972-5978 and going up to B10/KL5828 expend a total of 30 torpedoes. So they should have 30 torps left.
3. Missiles.
The Auroras' normal load out is 120 missiles. Again, B6/KL7201 states that the Aurora is completely rearmed prior to leaving the Ta'Akar shipyard. Beginning at B7/5892 until B10/KL5833 the Aurora fires 60 missiles in combat. That leaves her with 60 missiles.
4. Fighters.
B6/KL7328 talks about the Ta'Akar fighters onboard the Aurora. There are 2 on each cat port/starboard and an additional 24 in the hangar on each side. That would make 52 total fighter. However, B9/KL4399 mentions 48 total fighter. A little inconsistency but I think 48 is good because that is a typical Air Force wing and also Navy carrier airwings have 4 squadrons of 12 strike-fighters each. Starting with B8/KL5098 thru B10/6476 combat losses are 13 fighters. That leaves the Aurora airwing with 35 aircraft although some were transferred to the Celestia. Not to mention that there are probably 1-2 hangar queens!!!
5. Shuttles.
Started with 10 tactical and 2 cargo shuttles according to B6/KL7328. I don't have the exact B#/KL# but I know 2 tactical shuttles were lost in B10.
6. Corinari Special Forces (CSF).
There is a resolvable inconsistency here if deemed worthwhile. B7/KL108 talks about Maj Waddell coming onboard with 2 platoons with a total 100 men. Subsequently, B9/KL3572 states that there are only 50 CSF onboard. Thru B10/KL4023 a total of 12 CSF have been KIA (most trying to get Jessica out of Australia). This may make a difference if one assumes that the CSF are helping the Ghatazhak defeat the Jung forces on Earth. I'm just saying that 88 men would be more useful then 38. A quick type change from 50 to 100 in B9 is all it would take.
7. Ghatazhak.
Wee doggies do I like these guys. Ryk you have done a masterful job of humanizing them vis-a-vis their reputation under tyrannical Caius. Nice! Now, in B7/KL454 there is no doubt that there are 2 platoons for a total of 100 men. Once Nathan awakens them and they go into action on Tanna the number of KIA/WIA gets fuzzy. During the battle on Tanna the bridge staff is watching the action thru the Ghatazhak vidcoms and based on that I counted 8 casualties (B9/KL4482, 4517 & 4531). At B10/KL429 the Tanna casualties are listed as 2 KIA and 3 WIA. Subsequently, 3 additional KIA are mentioned in B10/KL5931 & 5964. So there could still be as many as 95 or as few (relatively speaking for these guys) as 89 Ghatazhak still in the fight. Based on how effective these warrior elites are the difference of 6 is big. Can we assume there are still 95 left?
8. Plasma Cannon/Torpedos.
Alright, this topic is a little squishy. That is why I left it for last. The plasma cannons/torpedo tubes are first proposed by Lt. Montgomery at B7/KL1949-1973. It is decided to convert torpedo tubes #2, 4 & 6. Torpedo tube 2 is initially converted and is first employed in B7/KL5968 when the Aurora rapid fires 12 plasma torpedoes (PT) at the Jung cruisers try to ambush them over Earth. Subsequently, B10/KL1503 stated that 4 PTs (2 from tubes #2 & 4 each) were fired. Then, B10/KL2766 stated that there was a 30 second recharge factor. However, the PTs had a mini-ZPED power source. I would think they didn't need recharging if so powered. B10 also had additional PTs being fired that were not rippled beyond 2-4 at any one exchange. The Celestia had the Plasma cannon (PC) onboard (B10/KL2856) and the way I understood the engagement with the Jung frigates it was rapid firing (aka a machine gun). This is important because of - TACTICS. The ability to saturate and overload shields with the PT/PCs is - I have to say it - HUGE! With shields gone the Jung ships are essentially defenseless against rail guns, missiles and other PTs. Personally, with the number of ships the Jung have available I vote for the Aurora and Celestia having rapid fire PT/PC capability. I'm just saying.
I hope that I have not angered anyone or stepped on any sensibilities. That is certainly NOT my intent. I have absolutely enjoyed reading all 10 books to date (like I mentioned above I have read each at least twice). There is no doubt Mr. Brown that if you keep writing them I will keep reading them. Looking forward to April.
1. You should read the entire topic before posting.
Nothing is ever an accident, or an oversight. Why are surrounded, all of us, by mysteries, many of which are hiding in plain sight.
I will say no more.
I'll admit I was also under the same assumptions, but the above suggest that it may well have been intentional. When somone says, "The Jung had shields in this situation, of course they have shields in that situation". They are making a number of assumptions which could prove false due to a number of possible reaons. The primary one is that every Jung warship has
shields. Judging from Ryk's statement, we'll learn more about it later.
Another post by Ryk reminds us that the Jung empire is 100 light years across. The longest distance between two stars in the Jung empire is 5-10 years travel.
Therefore I have a few possible reasons:
1. As I inferred in an earlier post, the Jung lost their access to shield technology during the plague and were only able to regain the tech fairly recently (within the last few decades given the travel times. Thus older ships do not have the tech.
2. The Jung may be concerned with mutinies on shielded ships and thus limit the number of such ships to those with enough loyal crew.
3. Not all Jung ships are built with shields and those that aren't may not always be upgraded. The reason why might be a trust issue or simply relatively low tech captured ship yards, both of which might apply to planets that are forced to make ships.
4. Building and installing shields onto a ship may actually be really expensive for the Jung. Thus not all Jung warships have them.
The simple fact of the matter is that we readers don't really know much about the details of how the Jung operate beyond some general details about how they subjugate planets.
I just wanted to say Welcome, Tomcat. A well researched post. I don't have any answers myself, as we have talked about this stuff ad-naseum. I imagine we'll find out Ryk's point of view in another month or so... 🙂
Tomcat,
First off... Thanks for your service.
You definitely cleared up a lot of things viewed as inconsistencies. The group is very fortunate to have an experienced aviator. Looks like we've got ourselves an observant and creative technical adviser in you. Thanks for the "Lessons Learned"!!!
This series is fantastic! I can't wait for Episode 11.
PS
My uncle flew the F-84G Thunderjet in Korea
Nuclearman, Eric and NuForce,
Thanks for the comments and welcome. I suspect Episode 11 will answer some questions and generate new ones - Just another reason why I believe this series is the best.
NuForce - I imagine your uncle has some very interesting stories being involved in the history of the first jet v jet air war.
