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Torpedoes vs Missiles

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Posts: 14
 Jim
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(@boiler-jim)
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In a Sea Navy, Torpedoes are self-propelled, guided munitions that travel in 3 dimensions in water to blow things up. Missiles are self-propelled, guided munitions that travel in 3 dimensions above the water to blow things up. For Sea navies, the big difference between the two is the medium they traverse. What is the difference in space? I think a description of the differences between the two would be interesting in a future episode.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpedo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missile

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(@rykbrown)
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Joined: 11 years ago

I think I touched on the differences in one of the episodes, although I can't remember which.

My thinking has always been this;

'Torpedoes' are short range, line-of-sight weapons that have very little maneuverability. The are launched via a rail-gun type device and have a powerful yet short-lived (maybe ten seconds) propulsion system. They leave the tube at a high velocity and accelerate very quickly over a very short (relatively speaking) distance. However, once their propellant is used up, they cannot alter their course. Since only a small portion of their mass is used for propellant and propulsion, they can carry a much larger, more powerful warhead, including both fixed and variable yield nukes.

'Missiles' are long range weapons that are launched under their own power (not accelerated by an external device like torpedoes) that accelerate quickly at first, then reduce to a 'cruise' power that allows them to alter their flight path considerably. They can literally 'follow' a target until their propellant runs out. They only have to be fired in the general direction of a target, the rest is up to the missile. Since more of their mass is used for propellant and propulsion, they have smaller, less powerful warheads. (Which can include fixed-yield, tactical nukes.)

I know that the terms don't coincide exactly with present day applications, but that was my thinking.

Ryk

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Posts: 42
(@peacecraft)
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Joined: 11 years ago

I was picturing missiles larger in size compared to torpedoes. It's one of the reasons that the Aroura was better in the PC because the tarka like to fight with missiles and didn't really have a defence or tactics against torpedoes.

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Posts: 54
 Mor
(@mordin)
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Joined: 10 years ago

In a Sea Navy, Torpedoes are self-propelled, guided munitions that travel in 3 dimensions in water to blow things up. Missiles are self-propelled, guided munitions that travel in 3 dimensions above the water to blow things up. For Sea navies, the big difference between the two is the medium they traverse. What is the difference in space?

Torpedoes travel underwater (lower speeds) and generally harder to destroy. Our Torpedoes sound like a slow, high yield, rockets (unguided missiles).

Btw, in space there is no gravityfriction to slow them down. So i'd imagine that more emphasis would be put on guidance and maneuvering(to avoid threats). Plus I wont be surprised to see an even slower deadlier variant a.k.a. the good ol' mines, since everything you lunch will retain the platform speed, I can see how with little creative use can give mines the speed of rockets. (I wonder how big small an anti mater reactor can be)

On the down side space is open so there is no using topgrphy, no mountains nor "hugging the water" to reduce "LOS" to the horizon.

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Posts: 6
(@sumomech)
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Joined: 10 years ago

This is my first post so bare with me. Current Torps are use either prox fuse or contact fuse so do their duty outside of the target. Most are guided by the ship or submarine shooting them. They usually carry more explosive potential than missiles (500-2000 lbs of explosives). They travel slow due the medium they travel through. Therefore they are considered short range weapons and do extreme amount of damage to the target.
Missiles on the other hand get information from the vehicle shooting them and once fired are normally self guided. They carry a smaller amount of explosives and must penetrate the target before do their duty. Their range is considered to be long range, up to 100 miles from the target. Some even can maneuver to avoid threats in order to get to the target. Now this is current day stuff I do believe.
Mines something totally different as they are weapons deployed to make or deny a enemy use of an area of operation. Most are the old style that we remember from WWII and are a contact type. The newer version are a combination of contact and acoustic and can programed to attack a specific target by it acoustic signature. Mines have an explosive amount in the 500-2000lb range and the newer one will even float up to the target and exploded under the target therefore breaking the back (keel) of the ship.
sumo

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Posts: 54
 Mor
(@mordin)
Trusted Member
Joined: 10 years ago

Most are guided by the ship or submarine shooting them.

correct me if I am wrong, but radio has been proven too easy to jam. so you probably refer to wire-guidance, which is very limited in range and would be impractical in space. Also even guided Torpedo has at least basic self guidance logic.

Therefore they are considered short range weapons and do extreme amount of damage to the target.

As far as I know there they considered dangerous because there are less means to take them out, not because higher payload == higher damage. Anyway as far as space goes their function should be nominal and replace by already existing verity of missiles roles, in fact our definition of Torpedoes remind me more of RL shells.

Their range is considered to be long range, up to 100 miles from the target. Some even can maneuver to avoid threats in order to get to the target.

and considering that Earth atmosphere reduce propulsion effectiveness by factor of ~10, it assures that their performance in space would be greatly enhanced.

Mines something totally different as they are weapons deployed to make or deny a enemy use of an area of operation. [..] the newer one will even float up to the target and exploded under the target therefore breaking the back (keel) of the ship.

I doubt that in vastness of space use of mines to deny a enemy use of an area of operation would be a valid tactic. (unless they invent some kind of powerful ZPED device that would cause Jump drive trying to transition into the system end up in its vicinity) As for homing mines, it is exactly what I had in mind, and since in space if you drop a mine after dropping out of FTL, it will continue at your maximum velocity to your target (which is already faster than any modern missiles) it can have interesting application e.g. such mines can be perfect against a stationary target. The are hard to track (cold and not active, at least not until the end) cheaper than rockets and can occupy enemy point defense system. If released in orbit they can seem like debris until its too late for the unsuspecting orbital facilities on the other side of planet.

btw, I wonder what happens to object dropped from ship using its FTL drive.

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Posts: 6
(@sumomech)
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Joined: 10 years ago

Mor, you are correct about radio guidance of torps but common public knowledge on torp tech they use a thin wire that is played out at the aft end of the torp. Once it reaches the end of the wire no more guidance can be given to the torp. Some of the newer torps use this and have sonar to locate the target. This is normally use with sub's hunting sub's. The only defense still used is zig zagging the course of the target and is still in use to this day. I think my first post was about the difference of torps and missiles in today's surface navy not in the future or the story. I let Ryk do that and his post is understandable for me as a salty dog that I am. Mines are used in today's arena as to make your opponent be where you want to be or deny areas to him. This was used in the first gulf war and my squadron was tasked to remove them. I as not in at the time but many people still talked about it. They had some good scuttlebutt and stories as they where deployed from the USS Tripoli. The only ship to strike a mine.
Sumo

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